Re: [WebDNA] New Webdna framework - WebDNACodeSparker
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2012
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 108375
interpreted = N
texte = >> In case anyone wants more guidance than what is currently offered in = the existing demo videos.. I am happy to make a more beginner-oriented = video (and/or just more clear video), on any topic desired. Just let = me know... preferably here. >>=20 >> -Govinda > Hi Govinda! this would be a great help for beginners and might be = appealing enough to turn them to WebDNA language :-). May i suggest = "searching a database" and "functions"? Also, do you mind if i link = webdna.us to your demo site www.webdnacodesparker.com? >=20 > chris Hi Chris, Of course you can link to WCS! Please do. I am glad to help the beginners. I am not sure if WCS = (WebdnaCodeSparker) really will make it easy for beginners or not. It = seems to me that what it does do well is take care of some desired = things, that a developer will eventually want in their projects: like = having SEO-friendly (clean) URLs, exact control over what URL loads what = logic code.. which in turn loads what HTML template,... caching,... = white space-control,... etc. But make it easy to start for beginners? = I dunno. Remember when we were beginners? ... how it felt when we were first = trying to even sort out the difference between client-side and = server-side? At that stage of someone's understanding, I think it might = even make sense to encourage them to go ahead and mix webdna and HTML = all into one simple file after another.. until they get the hang of it. = At that early stage 'MVC' is just another (headache) layer of = abstraction that can break the camel's back, as the saying goes. I = would encourage beginners to use WCS in case *they know they want* the = feature set of WCS... but otherwise I would say, "wait until you = appreciate why you would want that feature set, from first-hand = experience". Eventually one gets tired of un-tangling spaghetti code. = ;-) ... eventually one wants their URL to be clean for various reasons. Anyway I would be glad to make another video or two or more.. but let = us discuss this some more. I think we need a real beginner with a real = problem to ground this further discussion.. to demonstrate a real need - = so I know how to fill it. When I read you say, 'Please make a demo on = "searching".', I think, "Well searching in WCS is the same as it ever = was in Webdna. You just use a [search]...[/search].". See, I do not = see what the question really is.. if there is one. Perhaps you are = saying the beginner might not know *where* to put their = [search]...[/search] code? Then I would say, "watch the demo video on = 'MVC', and see if you still have a question.. and then articulate that = question as well as you can... and then we'll see what I can answer". =20= People may wish (for simpler projects) to just put their [search]'s = right into their Controller files, as they build up the [text] variables = which become the HTML output containers that populate their View files = (the HTML templates). Or for more elaborate or complex projects/code, I = suggest putting the [search]'s into the Model files, which are loaded by = the Controllers, in the init section at the top, so that you can keep = your Controller code succinct and *easy to read*.. so that, for = example, if you wanted to get the HTML output that results from some = search.. and put those results into a variable in your Controller, then = you could, for example, just put this into the Controller: [text]buildingUpArtShowReport=3D[buildingUpArtShowReport]
Here's all the paintings with blue sky motifs:
[fn_MODEL_Artists get=3Dskies&type=3Dblue&artist=3D(all)] [/text] (and in the 'M_art.dna' Model file, is where you would have defined the = [fn_MODEL_Artists] function.. and where lives the actual = [search]...[/search]. See how this ^^^ Controller code is easy to read, and might help keep a = long complex Controller file from getting difficult to read or deal = with? This (example just above) *is* what a "search" might look like in a = Controller file. This is the kind of thinking behind WCS.. and talking = about this kind of design is how I envision helping people who wished to = use it, beginner or not. If I just say, "To search, do this: [seach]...[/search]..." , then = what have I really offered special, over and above the official docs? Same kind of thing comes to mind when I read your other suggestion for a = new demo video on "[function]s" Functions are functions. What is the = question? I would say, "See the official docs for an explanation of = what functions are and how to use them." =20 If you mean, "How are functions used in WCS?" The answer is, "Same as = anywhere." =20 But what I WOULD ADD is that: in WCS, for clarity and ease of code = maintainability, you define your functions *in the places that makes = sense to do so*. The first two URL segments after the domain (in the = actual URL, or else in a re-routed URL) determine the Controller file = and Controller "method" (function) that fire. Now let us consider = those function which are not those immediate controller/method = functions: these auxiliary functions are usually best loaded in a = Utility file, or else in a Model file, tucked away so that these = function definitions do not clutter your Controller code where you would = just place the *calls* to the functions.. ; your Controller code is = where you just want to keep the code succinct with respect to your = business/application *logic*. =20 Perhaps I have missed what you were asking? If so, please explain. > Great work. Do I see iBookAuthor in your future and a often discussed = new WebDNA manual/iBook for the Apple book store? Maybe others could = contribute and someone (you?) could pull it all together? >=20 > Frank Hi Frank, I do love details, to help, and to articulate... but making a full blown = manual sounds tedious. I am more likely to answer real questions as = they come up from real people.. and then later when there is a nice = enough collection of such Q/A's.. then conglomerate all that into = something coherent and useful. I can see a FAQ section to the WCS = website before I can see writing any stand-alone manuals. In the very = near future I would love to help existing (or new) people get to start = using WCS so that they would be inspired to help later/new beginners who = wanted to start to use WCS. =20 Wherever answers to WCS questions come from, I will save them all, and = later put together into a doc (of whatever format). But I figure there = is no use deciding on that doc's format until we have some actual Q/A = content. ;-) I don't have hours more to spend guessing in advance = what people are going to experience, and trying to write all that up in = advance. HTH -Govinda
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
>> In case anyone wants more guidance than what is currently offered in = the existing demo videos.. I am happy to make a more beginner-oriented = video (and/or just more clear video), on any topic desired. Just let = me know... preferably here. >>=20 >> -Govinda > Hi Govinda! this would be a great help for beginners and might be = appealing enough to turn them to WebDNA language :-). May i suggest = "searching a database" and "functions"? Also, do you mind if i link = webdna.us to your demo site www.webdnacodesparker.com? >=20 > chris Hi Chris, Of course you can link to WCS! Please do. I am glad to help the beginners. I am not sure if WCS = (WebdnaCodeSparker) really will make it easy for beginners or not. It = seems to me that what it does do well is take care of some desired = things, that a developer will eventually want in their projects: like = having SEO-friendly (clean) URLs, exact control over what URL loads what = logic code.. which in turn loads what HTML template,... caching,... = white space-control,... etc. But make it easy to start for beginners? = I dunno. Remember when we were beginners? ... how it felt when we were first = trying to even sort out the difference between client-side and = server-side? At that stage of someone's understanding, I think it might = even make sense to encourage them to go ahead and mix webdna and HTML = all into one simple file after another.. until they get the hang of it. = At that early stage 'MVC' is just another (headache) layer of = abstraction that can break the camel's back, as the saying goes. I = would encourage beginners to use WCS in case *they know they want* the = feature set of WCS... but otherwise I would say, "wait until you = appreciate why you would want that feature set, from first-hand = experience". Eventually one gets tired of un-tangling
Spaghetti code. = ;-) ... eventually one wants their URL to be clean for various reasons. Anyway I would be glad to make another video or two or more.. but let = us discuss this some more. I think we need a real beginner with a real = problem to ground this further discussion.. to demonstrate a real need - = so I know how to fill it. When I read you say, 'Please make a demo on = "searching".', I think, "Well searching in WCS is the same as it ever = was in Webdna. You just use a
[search]...[/search].". See, I do not = see what the question really is.. if there is one. Perhaps you are = saying the beginner might not know *where* to put their =
[search]...[/search] code? Then I would say, "watch the demo video on = 'MVC', and see if you still have a question.. and then articulate that = question as well as you can... and then we'll see what I can answer". =20= People may wish (for simpler projects) to just put their
[search]'s = right into their Controller files, as they build up the
[text] variables = which become the HTML output containers that populate their View files = (the HTML templates). Or for more elaborate or complex projects/code, I = suggest putting the
[search]'s into the Model files, which are loaded by = the Controllers, in the init section at the top, so that you can keep = your Controller code succinct and *easy to read*.. so that, for = example, if you wanted to get the HTML output that results from some = search.. and put those results into a variable in your Controller, then = you could, for example, just put this into the Controller:
[text]buildingUpArtShowReport=3D[buildingUpArtShowReport]
Here's all the paintings with blue sky motifs:
[fn_MODEL_Artists get=3Dskies&type=3Dblue&artist=3D(all)] [/text] (and in the 'M_art.dna' Model file, is where you would have defined the = [fn_MODEL_Artists] function.. and where lives the actual =
[search]...[/search]. See how this ^^^ Controller code is easy to read, and might help keep a = long complex Controller file from getting difficult to read or deal = with? This (example just above) *is* what a "search" might look like in a = Controller file. This is the kind of thinking behind WCS.. and talking = about this kind of design is how I envision helping people who wished to = use it, beginner or not. If I just say, "To search, do this: [seach]...[/search]..." , then = what have I really offered special, over and above the official docs? Same kind of thing comes to mind when I read your other suggestion for a = new demo video on "
[function]s" Functions are functions. What is the = question? I would say, "See the official docs for an explanation of = what functions are and how to use them." =20 If you mean, "How are functions used in WCS?" The answer is, "Same as = anywhere." =20 But what I WOULD ADD is that: in WCS, for clarity and ease of code = maintainability, you define your functions *in the places that makes = sense to do so*. The first two URL segments after the domain (in the = actual URL, or else in a re-routed URL) determine the Controller file = and Controller "method" (function) that fire. Now let us consider = those function which are not those immediate controller/method = functions: these auxiliary functions are usually best loaded in a = Utility file, or else in a Model file, tucked away so that these = function definitions do not clutter your Controller code where you would = just place the *calls* to the functions.. ; your Controller code is = where you just want to keep the code succinct with respect to your = business/application *logic*. =20 Perhaps I have missed what you were asking? If so, please explain. > Great work. Do I see iBookAuthor in your future and a often discussed = new WebDNA manual/iBook for the Apple book store? Maybe others could = contribute and someone (you?) could pull it all together? >=20 > Frank Hi Frank, I do love details, to help, and to articulate... but making a full blown = manual sounds tedious. I am more likely to answer real questions as = they come up from real people.. and then later when there is a nice = enough collection of such Q/A's.. then conglomerate all that into = something coherent and useful. I can see a FAQ section to the WCS = website before I can see writing any stand-alone manuals. In the very = near future I would love to help existing (or new) people get to start = using WCS so that they would be inspired to help later/new beginners who = wanted to start to use WCS. =20 Wherever answers to WCS questions come from, I will save them all, and = later put together into a doc (of whatever format). But I figure there = is no use deciding on that doc's format until we have some actual Q/A = content. ;-) I don't have hours more to spend guessing in advance = what people are going to experience, and trying to write all that up in = advance. HTH -Govinda
Govinda
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