On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 2:53 PM, <christophe.billiottet@webd=na.us> wrote:Here what i think: 10 years ago (or more, i don't remember), instead of =working on the engine, a developer thought about making WebDNA an ="eCommerce application". At this time, it was a pretty neat solution. To =ensure additional income, he made the solution tag-dependent (expensive =license). This is why WebCatalog became "an eCommerce application" which =is one of the reasons it lost the "server-side scripting language" =market to PHP. Furthermore, the application has never been evolutive and =shows its age.
Actually, that is not what happened at all. =Originally, the product that did not have any Commerce functionality was =called Typhoon. WebCatalog has always been an e-commerce product =from day one when it only had one database called catalog.txt and was =limited to only 27.
WebCatalog 2 added the use of more than one database and it was =limited to 100.
I think the purchase command was added to =WebCatalog 3 and a separate product named WebMerchant was sold as an =add-on. This kept the Catalog or store and the processing =separate.
WebCatalog 4 combined WebCatalog and WebMerchant into what is now =Storebuilder.
WebDNA is a programming language for the web, and a great one: as =Patrick McCormick said once, "WebDNA needs to be thought of as the final =hack on everything emitted from the server, and those hacks can be as =sophisticated or interative as any user could ever want or need". WebDNA =should not be restricted to keep this old Commerce solution alive, and =we will not support it, although i have no plans to kill it neither.
During my last year at SMSI, I introduced them to =the pay for click advertising and the benefits of buying keywords. At =first I had no budget and was only given a few hundred dollars to play =with and I had to set it up myself, I was given a tag of SDPROMO =to track the sales from the key words I bought.
I simply made a template for the products that were being advertised =by the keyword which included a simple post command to the checkout.tpl =page of a Storebuilder site and included SDPROMO=3DT. With no =money, I could only purchase the cheap words like those that were =misspelled, but those were also the best ones because you got way more =ROI that the more expensive keywords. Needless to say, SMSI I =believe is still buying those keywords, but sure if they are still using =my template or not.
What's the point?? Before I was laid off, I proposed to SMSI =that they again Separate WebMerchant from WebDNA and offer it as a =separate solution either hosted or installed remotely. My idea was =to re-brand it as CheckOut Only allowing anyone using any e-commerce =solution out there to add credit card processing by simply creating a =one page form that posts to the checkout.tpl page.
There are a lot of stores out there that don't have the processing =part and it is difficult to integrate and use the back end of those =addons. CheckOut Only would have been much more feasable if it ran =on a fcgi back then like it does now. This would be a great way to =get WebDNA out there side by side with PHP applications as well as =possibly generate revenue by offering to setup the merchant accounts =along with WebMerchant.
Just thought I would throw it out =there!!
Sal
- chris
On Feb 10, 2012, at 20:31, Rob wrote:
> "WebDNA deserves a much more modern commerce application" ... = Hmmmm.... what is a possible ETA on this one... I've just spent =about 10 hours partially re-inventing the wheel on existing stores =because of no commerce tags, and am getting a little frustrated with =it... It would probably be easier for me just to adapt a PHP solution, =then screw with this all weekend... :-(
>
> Sorry.... just venting... long hours... but its kind of annoying =having a workable system that is no longer available, and having to find =workarounds for everything those tags did... sigh!... about 60% done... =then comes the job of transposing those changes into all the stores... I =guess once its done it will be a better solution...
>
> The commerce tags don't work on the OS X version 7.0.623.
>
> Rob
>
>
> On Feb 10, 2012, at 4:04 PM, christophe.billiottet@webd=na.us wrote:
>
>> Sorry, can't document this! :-)
>>
>> Seriously... i am not even sure the eCommerce tags work with =7.0 but some of you told me it was working fine. Yes, it works with the =version we put online this evening (7.1 linux-64) but again, we do not =support these old tags. I think WebDNA deserves a much more modern =commerce application.
>>
>> - chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2012, at 19:48, C. Frank Wolfe wrote:
>>
>>> So which versions/platforms have the undocumented old =ecommerence tags?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 10, 2012, at 11:37 AM, christophe.billiottet@webd=na.us wrote:
>>>
>>>> ok, we built a new linux 64bits (7.1.696), available at =dev.webdna.us/products.html
>>>> Old eCommerce tags are activated by default and we =replaced "unknown" by "WebDNA" (cosmetic issue)
>>>>
>>>> - chris
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 10, 2012, at 18:33, Kenneth Grome wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The client said he gets the error when this is the =only tag
>>>>> in the page:
>>>>>
>>>>> [addlineitem
>>>>> =cart=3D2&sku=3DGW9032&db=3Dcatalog.txt]quantity=3D1[/addlineitem]<=br>>>>>>
>>>>> The "Unknown" issue is cosmetic only, it appears in =the
>>>>> WebDNA Admin pages in "<title>Unknown =Preferences</title>"
>>>>> and in the heading on the security page as "Unknown =Security
>>>>> Administration" ... and possibly other places. = It seems
>>>>> like there's a tag that's supposed to put a version =name
>>>>> there but it defaults to "Unknown" when the tag =cannot get
>>>>> the proper value from the software or the =prefs.
>>>>>
>>>>> My main concern is the eCommerce issue: If =v6.x sites will
>>>>> not run on v7.1 then I should have installed =version 7.0 for
>>>>> the client instead of 7.1 ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Kenneth Grome
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 7.1 includes the last versions of xalan and =xerces,
>>>>>> removes the need for java and libmysql, and we =built it
>>>>>> without special care for the eCommerce tags, =though we
>>>>>> did not change anything about them neither. =Could you
>>>>>> isolate the tag that produces this error? also, =could
>>>>>> you explain "I see this problem in the 7.1 =admin
>>>>>> interface too"? the more details we have, the =better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sincerely,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2012, at 17:04, Kenneth Grome =wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm not sure about the most recent build of =version 7.0
>>>>>>> but at least one or more of the previous =versions of
>>>>>>> 7.0 ran one of my client's 6.x eCommerce =site just
>>>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, I installed 7.1 for a new client =the other
>>>>>>> day, and he says he cannot get his =eCommerce site to
>>>>>>> run on it. Instead he get this error:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> " Unknown does not support eCommerce =capabilities. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So here's the question:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given that version 7.1 does not include =MySQL stuff,
>>>>>>> and may have had other changes made between =it and
>>>>>>> version 7.0 that we were not told about, =does this
>>>>>>> mean that version 7.1 will absolutely not =process
>>>>>>> eCommerce tags -- and instead it will =generate this
>>>>>>> error when it sees an eCommerce tag?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, something else is wrong here too, =because the
>>>>>>> error message should not say "Unknown". = I think it
>>>>>>> should instead post the version name there. = I see
>>>>>>> this problem in the 7.1 admin interface =too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Kenneth Grome
>>>>>>> =-------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> -- This message is sent to you because you =are
>>>>>>> subscribed to the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <talk-leave@webdna.us>
>>>>>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
>>>>>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> This message is sent to you because you are =subscribed to
>>>>>> the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <talk-leave@webdna.us>
>>>>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
>>>>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
>>>>> =---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> This message is sent to you because you are =subscribed to
>>>>> the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
>>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <talk-leave@webdna.us>
>>>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
>>>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
>>>>
>>>> =---------------------------------------------------------
>>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed =to
>>>> the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <talk-leave@webdna.us>
>>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
>>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
>>>>
>>>
>>> =---------------------------------------------------------
>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed =to
>>> the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <talk-leave@webdna.us>
>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
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>> the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
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>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
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>
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|
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 2:53 PM, <christophe.billiottet@webd=na.us> wrote:Here what i think: 10 years ago (or more, i don't remember), instead of =working on the engine, a developer thought about making WebDNA an ="eCommerce application". At this time, it was a pretty neat solution. To =ensure additional income, he made the solution tag-dependent (expensive =license). This is why WebCatalog became "an eCommerce application" which =is one of the reasons it lost the "server-side scripting language" =market to PHP. Furthermore, the application has never been evolutive and =shows its age.
Actually, that is not what happened at all. =Originally, the product that did not have any Commerce functionality was =called Typhoon. WebCatalog has always been an e-commerce product =from day one when it only had one database called catalog.txt and was =limited to only 27.
WebCatalog 2 added the use of more than one database and it was =limited to 100.
I think the purchase command was added to =WebCatalog 3 and a separate product named WebMerchant was sold as an =add-on. This kept the Catalog or store and the processing =separate.
WebCatalog 4 combined WebCatalog and WebMerchant into what is now =Storebuilder.
WebDNA is a programming language for the web, and a great one: as =Patrick McCormick said once, "WebDNA needs to be thought of as the final =hack on everything emitted from the server, and those hacks can be as =sophisticated or interative as any user could ever want or need". WebDNA =should not be restricted to keep this old Commerce solution alive, and =we will not support it, although i have no plans to kill it neither.
During my last year at SMSI, I introduced them to =the pay for click advertising and the benefits of buying keywords. At =first I had no budget and was only given a few hundred dollars to play =with and I had to set it up myself, I was given a tag of SDPROMO =to track the sales from the key words I bought.
I simply made a template for the products that were being advertised =by the keyword which included a simple post command to the checkout.tpl =page of a Storebuilder site and included SDPROMO=3DT. With no =money, I could only purchase the cheap words like those that were =misspelled, but those were also the best ones because you got way more =ROI that the more expensive keywords. Needless to say, SMSI I =believe is still buying those keywords, but sure if they are still using =my template or not.
What's the point?? Before I was laid off, I proposed to SMSI =that they again Separate WebMerchant from WebDNA and offer it as a =separate solution either hosted or installed remotely. My idea was =to re-brand it as CheckOut Only allowing anyone using any e-commerce =solution out there to add credit card processing by simply creating a =one page form that posts to the checkout.tpl page.
There are a lot of stores out there that don't have the processing =part and it is difficult to integrate and use the back end of those =addons. CheckOut Only would have been much more feasable if it ran =on a fcgi back then like it does now. This would be a great way to =get WebDNA out there side by side with PHP applications as well as =possibly generate revenue by offering to setup the merchant accounts =along with WebMerchant.
Just thought I would throw it out =there!!
Sal
- chris
On Feb 10, 2012, at 20:31, Rob wrote:
> "WebDNA deserves a much more modern commerce application" ... = Hmmmm.... what is a possible ETA on this one... I've just spent =about 10 hours partially re-inventing the wheel on existing stores =because of no commerce tags, and am getting a little frustrated with =it... It would probably be easier for me just to adapt a PHP solution, =then screw with this all weekend... :-(
>
> Sorry.... just venting... long hours... but its kind of annoying =having a workable system that is no longer available, and having to find =workarounds for everything those tags did... sigh!... about 60% done... =then comes the job of transposing those changes into all the stores... I =guess once its done it will be a better solution...
>
> The commerce tags don't work on the OS X version 7.0.623.
>
> Rob
>
>
> On Feb 10, 2012, at 4:04 PM, christophe.billiottet@webd=na.us wrote:
>
>> Sorry, can't document this! :-)
>>
>> Seriously... i am not even sure the eCommerce tags work with =7.0 but some of you told me it was working fine. Yes, it works with the =version we put online this evening (7.1 linux-64) but again, we do not =support these old tags. I think WebDNA deserves a much more modern =commerce application.
>>
>> - chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2012, at 19:48, C. Frank Wolfe wrote:
>>
>>> So which versions/platforms have the undocumented old =ecommerence tags?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 10, 2012, at 11:37 AM, christophe.billiottet@webd=na.us wrote:
>>>
>>>> ok, we built a new linux 64bits (7.1.696), available at =dev.webdna.us/products.html
>>>> Old eCommerce tags are activated by default and we =replaced "unknown" by "WebDNA" (cosmetic issue)
>>>>
>>>> - chris
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 10, 2012, at 18:33, Kenneth Grome wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The client said he gets the error when this is the =only tag
>>>>> in the page:
>>>>>
>>>>> [addlineitem
>>>>> =cart=3D2&sku=3DGW9032&db=3Dcatalog.txt]quantity=3D1[/addlineitem]<=br>>>>>>
>>>>> The "Unknown" issue is cosmetic only, it appears in =the
>>>>> WebDNA Admin pages in "<title>Unknown =Preferences</title>"
>>>>> and in the heading on the security page as "Unknown =Security
>>>>> Administration" ... and possibly other places. = It seems
>>>>> like there's a tag that's supposed to put a version =name
>>>>> there but it defaults to "Unknown" when the tag =cannot get
>>>>> the proper value from the software or the =prefs.
>>>>>
>>>>> My main concern is the eCommerce issue: If =v6.x sites will
>>>>> not run on v7.1 then I should have installed =version 7.0 for
>>>>> the client instead of 7.1 ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Kenneth Grome
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 7.1 includes the last versions of xalan and =xerces,
>>>>>> removes the need for java and libmysql, and we =built it
>>>>>> without special care for the eCommerce tags, =though we
>>>>>> did not change anything about them neither. =Could you
>>>>>> isolate the tag that produces this error? also, =could
>>>>>> you explain "I see this problem in the 7.1 =admin
>>>>>> interface too"? the more details we have, the =better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sincerely,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2012, at 17:04, Kenneth Grome =wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm not sure about the most recent build of =version 7.0
>>>>>>> but at least one or more of the previous =versions of
>>>>>>> 7.0 ran one of my client's 6.x eCommerce =site just
>>>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, I installed 7.1 for a new client =the other
>>>>>>> day, and he says he cannot get his =eCommerce site to
>>>>>>> run on it. Instead he get this error:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> " Unknown does not support eCommerce =capabilities. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So here's the question:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given that version 7.1 does not include =MySQL stuff,
>>>>>>> and may have had other changes made between =it and
>>>>>>> version 7.0 that we were not told about, =does this
>>>>>>> mean that version 7.1 will absolutely not =process
>>>>>>> eCommerce tags -- and instead it will =generate this
>>>>>>> error when it sees an eCommerce tag?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, something else is wrong here too, =because the
>>>>>>> error message should not say "Unknown". = I think it
>>>>>>> should instead post the version name there. = I see
>>>>>>> this problem in the 7.1 admin interface =too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Kenneth Grome
>>>>>>> =-------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> -- This message is sent to you because you =are
>>>>>>> subscribed to the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <talk-leave@webdna.us>
>>>>>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
>>>>>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> This message is sent to you because you are =subscribed to
>>>>>> the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <talk-leave@webdna.us>
>>>>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
>>>>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
>>>>> =---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> This message is sent to you because you are =subscribed to
>>>>> the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
>>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <talk-leave@webdna.us>
>>>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
>>>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
>>>>
>>>> =---------------------------------------------------------
>>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed =to
>>>> the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <talk-leave@webdna.us>
>>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
>>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
>>>>
>>>
>>> =---------------------------------------------------------
>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed =to
>>> the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <talk-leave@webdna.us>
>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>> the mailing list <talk@webdna.us>.
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>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us
>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
>
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