Re: [WebDNA] First-timer feedback

This WebDNA talk-list message is from

2014


It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 111521
interpreted = N
texte = On Aug 4, 2014, at 9:16 AM, Dan Strong wrote: > I've begun teaching some php/CF/other-languages-savvy developers = WebDNA and had them do a test project. I thought you'd find their = feedback interesting. >=20 > Obviously some things they just need to be shown how to do in WebDNA, Obviously ;-) > but overall this is some good feedback. >=20 > 1. No session support: We must use cookies and built-in db instead. Umm... PHP is not hugely different from WebDNA in their $_SESSION = functionality vs. our ORDERFILE. Only, if we want to sustain our = session via cookies, we just have to manually set a cookie with the = value of [cart] and call it on each page is all. Then you don=92t have = to pass the cart values in all the href=92s. It=92s really no more lines = of code than PHP.=20 >=20 > 2. No JSON object (encode/decode) support JSON is simply text. Tom Duke recently posted a basic parser he wrote. = Anyone that really needs it should be able to whip up a function library = for this.=20 >=20 > 3. Some limitations in File Handling: No absolutely path support, only = relative paths are supported. Try the prefs. >=20 > 4. Db Connections are limited. Agreed=85 but to WebDNA=92s defense, it contains it=92s own solution, = where other languages do not.=20 >=20 > 5. Language syntax is limited, so it is hard to implement some = algorithms. Possible, but I have not run into much of that. > 6. Not easy to debug, lacks editor/debug support I agree it could be better... but you get used to debugging in WebDNA, = and you learn to build tools to help you with that. In the end, WebDNA is simpler to code and easier to read.. so if you use = good syntax, it=92s not that hard to isolate bugs.=20 > 7. Built-in db has poor performance (poor query language : NO group, = sum... etc). No group / sum??? =85News to me. :-) > 8. Array object is much more limited than Array objects in Python and = PHP WebDNA=92ers don=92t like Arrays=85 they are cumbersome. We like = [table]=92s,[formvarialbes]=92s,[listvariables]=92s etc.. and lists.=20 >=20 > 9. Seems that it does not support object model, and its concepts are = not similar to other common scripting languages. WebDNA=92ers think different (and get things done faster / easier / = better) OOP is over-complicated and not needed for 95% of Web-App projects in my = humble opinion. However, like javascript being a classes language, = there are fairly easy ways to mimic abstraction, encapsulation, inheritance , etc=85= using [function..] (and it=92s preparse param), and [scope] >=20 > 10. Does not support WHILE loop written off the top of my head.. [loop start=3D1&end=3D9999999] [if [x]<1000] [then] [math]x=3D[x]+1[/math] [/then] [else] [break] [/else] [/if] [/loop] then package it up in a function named = [EmailDansStudentsUntilTheyGetIT-While ] [function name=3D EmailDansStudentsUntilTheyGetIT-While] [loop start=3D1&end=3D9999999] [if [x]<[stop]] [then] [math show=3DF]x=3D[x]+1[/math] [/then] [else] [break] [/else] [/if] [/loop] [/function] [EmailDansStudentsUntilTheyGetIT-While x=3D1&stop=3D1000] >=20 > 11. No reading of text files (or not yet found the way) Now, why can=92t WebDNA read text files again? :-) >=20 > 12. No support for CURL, so working with web services can be a = problem. ..And I thought Dan was a curl/cron guy?=20 >=20 > 13. There is some special handles with =93\ln=94 character while = WebDNA works with HTML=85. I don=92t know what this means=85=85=85=85=85=85^ do you mean the = newline escape sequence =91\n=92? What is the problem? My 2 biggest Pet Peeve's in PHP vs WebDNA (besides having to use an = external database in PHP) =97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97annoying use of the echo / print command=20 PHP: WebDNA: [text]text1=3DHello World[/text] [text1] ---------------------------------------------------- =97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97use of arrays for everything... PHP: Form Vars
"; foreach ($_GET as $key =3D> $value) { print "$key =3D $value
"; } foreach ($_POST as $key =3D> $value) { print "$key =3D $value
"; } ?> WebDNA: Form Vars
[formvariables] [name]=3D[value]
[/formvariables] Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:

    
  1. Re: [WebDNA] First-timer feedback (Dan Strong 2014)
  2. Re: [WebDNA] First-timer feedback (Stuart Tremain 2014)
  3. Re: [WebDNA] First-timer feedback (Dan Strong 2014)
  4. Re: [WebDNA] First-timer feedback (Donovan Brooke 2014)
  5. Re: [WebDNA] First-timer feedback (Matthew Bohne 2014)
  6. [WebDNA] First-timer feedback (Dan Strong 2014)
On Aug 4, 2014, at 9:16 AM, Dan Strong wrote: > I've begun teaching some php/CF/other-languages-savvy developers = WebDNA and had them do a test project. I thought you'd find their = feedback interesting. >=20 > Obviously some things they just need to be shown how to do in WebDNA, Obviously ;-) > but overall this is some good feedback. >=20 > 1. No session support: We must use cookies and built-in db instead. Umm... PHP is not hugely different from WebDNA in their $_SESSION = functionality vs. our ORDERFILE. Only, if we want to sustain our = session via cookies, we just have to manually set a cookie with the = value of [cart] and call it on each page is all. Then you don=92t have = to pass the cart values in all the href=92s. It=92s really no more lines = of code than PHP.=20 >=20 > 2. No JSON object (encode/decode) support JSON is simply text. Tom Duke recently posted a basic parser he wrote. = Anyone that really needs it should be able to whip up a function library = for this.=20 >=20 > 3. Some limitations in File Handling: No absolutely path support, only = relative paths are supported. Try the prefs. >=20 > 4. Db Connections are limited. Agreed=85 but to WebDNA=92s defense, it contains it=92s own solution, = where other languages do not.=20 >=20 > 5. Language syntax is limited, so it is hard to implement some = algorithms. Possible, but I have not run into much of that. > 6. Not easy to debug, lacks editor/debug support I agree it could be better... but you get used to debugging in WebDNA, = and you learn to build tools to help you with that. In the end, WebDNA is simpler to code and easier to read.. so if you use = good syntax, it=92s not that hard to isolate bugs.=20 > 7. Built-in db has poor performance (poor query language : NO group, = sum... etc). No group / sum??? =85News to me. :-) > 8. Array object is much more limited than Array objects in Python and = PHP WebDNA=92ers don=92t like Arrays=85 they are cumbersome. We like = [table]=92s,[formvarialbes]=92s,[listvariables]=92s etc.. and lists.=20 >=20 > 9. Seems that it does not support object model, and its concepts are = not similar to other common scripting languages. WebDNA=92ers think different (and get things done faster / easier / = better) OOP is over-complicated and not needed for 95% of Web-App projects in my = humble opinion. However, like javascript being a classes language, = there are fairly easy ways to mimic abstraction, encapsulation, inheritance , etc=85= using [function..] (and it=92s preparse param), and [scope] >=20 > 10. Does not support WHILE loop written off the top of my head.. [loop start=3D1&end=3D9999999] [if [x]<1000] [then] [math]x=3D[x]+1[/math] [/then] [else] [break] [/else] [/if] [/loop] then package it up in a function named = [EmailDansStudentsUntilTheyGetIT-While ] [function name=3D EmailDansStudentsUntilTheyGetIT-While] [loop start=3D1&end=3D9999999] [if [x]<[stop]] [then] [math show=3DF]x=3D[x]+1[/math] [/then] [else] [break] [/else] [/if] [/loop] [/function] [EmailDansStudentsUntilTheyGetIT-While x=3D1&stop=3D1000] >=20 > 11. No reading of text files (or not yet found the way) Now, why can=92t WebDNA read text files again? :-) >=20 > 12. No support for CURL, so working with web services can be a = problem. ..And I thought Dan was a curl/cron guy?=20 >=20 > 13. There is some special handles with =93\ln=94 character while = WebDNA works with HTML=85. I don=92t know what this means=85=85=85=85=85=85^ do you mean the = newline escape sequence =91\n=92? What is the problem? My 2 biggest Pet Peeve's in PHP vs WebDNA (besides having to use an = external database in PHP) =97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97annoying use of the echo / print command=20 PHP: WebDNA: [text]text1=3DHello World[/text] [text1] ---------------------------------------------------- =97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97use of arrays for everything... PHP: Form Vars
"; foreach ($_GET as $key =3D> $value) { print "$key =3D $value
"; } foreach ($_POST as $key =3D> $value) { print "$key =3D $value
"; } ?> WebDNA: Form Vars
[formvariables] [name]=3D[value]
[/formvariables] Donovan Brooke

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