Re: [WebDNA] two ideas for running a cluster of WebDNA servers
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2019
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 114880
interpreted = N
texte = 2508I=E2=80=99m very interested in this.At times we have hundreds of devices a minute hitting our server.=20The only thing that has made performance better is investing in new =hardware that can deal with the load. (Fast SSDs made a huge difference)A singular store for databases would be the only way I can think of to =achieve this across endpoints.- Greg> On Oct 5, 2019, at 10:42 AM, WebDNA Solutions =
wrote:>=20>> One front-end server that will redirect the requests>> through POST or GET to a cluster of back-end servers. When>> the request is for writing, then only one of the back-end>> servers is solicited (always the same), when is is for>> reading, it could be any of the back-end servers.>>=20>> The "writing" server is the master, the others are slaves.>> Every 30 sec, through rsync, the master is copied to a>> slave, and the WebDNA slave reloads the databases in RAM.>=20> Actually in this situation the WebDNA dbs on the slave servers> must be flushed immediately BEFORE each rsync overwrites> them. If this happens every 30 seconds it will effectively> defeat one of the main advantages of WebDNA -- its typically> superfast "read from RAM" performance -- because every updated> db would have to be read into RAM agai every 30 seconds.>=20>=20>=20>> Another idea would be the same front-end server with the>> same backend servers, and instead of using rsync, the front>> end server would POST the request to each one of the>> back-end servers: no more master and slave.>=20> I did something similar many years ago, but instead of> frontend and backend servers each server was equally> available via a sequential round-robin load distribution> system. This eliminated the need to flush the dbs every time> one server posted an update to another server, because they> would all be posted to at virtually the same time (within a> fraction of a second from each other given a fast enough> network connection).>=20> But when the internet connection between the servers goes> down it creates SERIOUS out-of-sync problems such as failure> to login, failure to see the updates the visitors just made,> etc. ... and this would absolutely require your next idea in> order to rebuild the dbs correctly when necessary:>=20>> Another idea would be to keep a log database of all the>> writing requests so, by reading this log file, all the>> "slaves" would get the same information. Databases could>> even be rebuilt in case of necessity.>=20> A system like this would become very complex and error-prone> in my opinion, thus unlikely worth the effort when non-WebDNA> solutions are readily available and have been tested and> proven in terms of reliability for many years already.>=20>=20>> I am sure there are other solutions. Any other idea?>=20> WebDNA's design is ideal for use on a single frontend server.> To try and turn it into a backend server would probably suck,> not just because of the amount of work required in an attempt> to turn it into something it is not, but mostly because if it> loses the inherent advantages it offers as a RAM-resident> frontend db server you'll end up with a system that> underperforms the competition.>=20> I'm wondering why you're thinking about this?>=20> Are you trying to come up with a plan to "add value" to> WebDNA and perhaps broaden its market by attempting to make> WebDNA a suitable system for websites that need more than one> server in order to handle extreme loads?>=20>=20> Regards,> Kenneth Grome> WebDNA Solutions> http://www.webdnasolutions.com> Urgent/Emergency Phone: (228) 222-2917> Website, Database, Network, and Communication Systems>=20>=20>=20> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to> the mailing list talk@webdna.us> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us> archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us---------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list talk@webdna.usTo unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.usarchives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us.
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
2508I=E2=80=99m very interested in this.At times we have hundreds of devices a minute hitting our server.=20The only thing that has made performance better is investing in new =hardware that can deal with the load. (Fast SSDs made a huge difference)A singular store for databases would be the only way I can think of to =achieve this across endpoints.- Greg> On Oct 5, 2019, at 10:42 AM, WebDNA Solutions = wrote:>=20>> One front-end server that will redirect the requests>> through POST or GET to a cluster of back-end servers. When>> the request is for writing, then only one of the back-end>> servers is solicited (always the same), when is is for>> reading, it could be any of the back-end servers.>>=20>> The "writing" server is the master, the others are slaves.>> Every 30 sec, through rsync, the master is copied to a>> slave, and the WebDNA slave reloads the databases in RAM.>=20> Actually in this situation the WebDNA dbs on the slave servers> must be flushed immediately BEFORE each rsync overwrites> them. If this happens every 30 seconds it will effectively> defeat one of the main advantages of WebDNA -- its typically> superfast "read from RAM" performance -- because every updated> db would have to be read into RAM agai every 30 seconds.>=20>=20>=20>> Another idea would be the same front-end server with the>> same backend servers, and instead of using rsync, the front>> end server would POST the request to each one of the>> back-end servers: no more master and slave.>=20> I did something similar many years ago, but instead of> frontend and backend servers each server was equally> available via a sequential round-robin load distribution> system. This eliminated the need to flush the dbs every time> one server posted an update to another server, because they> would all be posted to at virtually the same time (within a> fraction of a second from each other given a fast enough> network connection).>=20> But when the internet connection between the servers goes> down it creates SERIOUS out-of-sync problems such as failure> to login, failure to see the updates the visitors just made,> etc. ... and this would absolutely require your next idea in> order to rebuild the dbs correctly when necessary:>=20>> Another idea would be to keep a log database of all the>> writing requests so, by reading this log file, all the>> "slaves" would get the same information. Databases could>> even be rebuilt in case of necessity.>=20> A system like this would become very complex and error-prone> in my opinion, thus unlikely worth the effort when non-WebDNA> solutions are readily available and have been tested and> proven in terms of reliability for many years already.>=20>=20>> I am sure there are other solutions. Any other idea?>=20> WebDNA's design is ideal for use on a single frontend server.> To try and turn it into a backend server would probably suck,> not just because of the amount of work required in an attempt> to turn it into something it is not, but mostly because if it> loses the inherent advantages it offers as a RAM-resident> frontend db server you'll end up with a system that> underperforms the competition.>=20> I'm wondering why you're thinking about this?>=20> Are you trying to come up with a plan to "add value" to> WebDNA and perhaps broaden its market by attempting to make> WebDNA a suitable system for websites that need more than one> server in order to handle extreme loads?>=20>=20> Regards,> Kenneth Grome> WebDNA Solutions> http://www.webdnasolutions.com> Urgent/Emergency Phone: (228) 222-2917> Website, Database, Network, and Communication Systems>=20>=20>=20> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to> the mailing list talk@webdna.us> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us> archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us---------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed tothe mailing list talk@webdna.usTo unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.usarchives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us.
Greg Nelson
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