[WebDNA] was: Two file tags don't work as expected: Now: Permission Settings

This WebDNA talk-list message is from

2009

It keeps the original formatting. numero = 102734
interpreted = N
texte = Hello, I have a bit more time today and wanted toexpand on the subject of permissions (*nix platforms)that Ken broached the other day. Ken as this list (andI) have a long history and I admit I am sometimesshort in my responses to him. ;-)First, I've always looked at permissions as ultimatelya server admin's preference, but as someone who is incharge of trying to release a product that works as goodas it can out-of-the-box, so-to-speak... I would liketo get the lists opinions here.First, I will let you know how I have come to set upWebDNA over the years. I am by no means a Linux expert,so feel free to be the critic here. ;-)Since I have seemed to make a living working mostlyon servers owned by others over the years, it hasseemed to work best for me to do folder/file perms as:folder:775file (non-secure):664file (secure): 660user/group: This allows group write ability to the files by WebDNA.WebDNA needs write access to most files to be able to functioncorrectly.The reason I like to set up group write ability is thatif FTP developers, with the group the same as apache, writeover a file, WebDNA still functions correctly.. (It canstill write to a file). This is perhaps assuming theroll of 'big brother' a bit as it is sort of trying tobypass the need for SSH access or the setting of permissions,which is perhaps not the best way to go about it.However, it has saved some headaches for me in the pastas well as development time.Now, more regarding Ken's post. The umask for most systemsis to set file permissions (when creating a dir or file)to 755 and 644... (no group write access). This isnot quite in-line as to what I normally set a webdna environment to,and thus not quite in-line as to what WebDNA's default is set to now. ;-) (since I now have a say at the development office)Though we still haven't looked at the source for 'movefile'..I am guessing (whether it has a bug or not) this tag isdeferring to the system default umask settings of the server.Also, since building a sitebuilder site or Webdna Lab etc.. all use movefile... they are also defaulting the system umask settings, which,like I said, is usually set at 022 (the octal complement ofthe permissions I stated).So, one way for Ken to perhaps fix his issue is to set theumask to the desired octal complement:umask 002We *could* change the system umask settings via during WebDNA install..but I have opted not to do this so far because it is invasive inregards to affecting the entire system. Also, I am aware of differentLinux distros having different options... meaning, I think somesystems have the ability to set default perms based ongroup. Also, I am aware of the ability to set defaults per theshell that is being used.Anyway, as of now, I install webdna and then change the umask to my liking.. but there may be different opinions that I should hear.. so, if you have some strong opinions about this, I'm all ears.Donovan(p.s. yes, we will look into the movefile tag to perhaps utilizethe admin permission settings when priorities permit). For now,there are lots of work-arounds regardless if this will be classifiedas a bug or not.-- Donovan BrookeWebDNA Software Corporationhttp://www.webdna.us**[Square Bracket Utopia]** Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:

[WebDNA] was: Two file tags don't work as expected: Now: Permission Settings (Donovan Brooke 2009)

Hello, I have a bit more time today and wanted toexpand on the subject of permissions (*nix platforms)that Ken broached the other day. Ken as this list (andI) have a long history and I admit I am sometimesshort in my responses to him. ;-)First, I've always looked at permissions as ultimatelya server admin's preference, but as someone who is incharge of trying to release a product that works as goodas it can out-of-the-box, so-to-speak... I would liketo get the lists opinions here.First, I will let you know how I have come to set upWebDNA over the years. I am by no means a Linux expert,so feel free to be the critic here. ;-)Since I have seemed to make a living working mostlyon servers owned by others over the years, it hasseemed to work best for me to do folder/file perms as:folder:775file (non-secure):664file (secure): 660user/group: This allows group write ability to the files by WebDNA.WebDNA needs write access to most files to be able to functioncorrectly.The reason I like to set up group write ability is thatif FTP developers, with the group the same as apache, writeover a file, WebDNA still functions correctly.. (It canstill write to a file). This is perhaps assuming theroll of 'big brother' a bit as it is sort of trying tobypass the need for SSH access or the setting of permissions,which is perhaps not the best way to go about it.However, it has saved some headaches for me in the pastas well as development time.Now, more regarding Ken's post. The umask for most systemsis to set file permissions (when creating a dir or file)to 755 and 644... (no group write access). This isnot quite in-line as to what I normally set a webdna environment to,and thus not quite in-line as to what WebDNA's default is set to now. ;-) (since I now have a say at the development office)Though we still haven't looked at the source for 'movefile'..I am guessing (whether it has a bug or not) this tag isdeferring to the system default umask settings of the server.Also, since building a sitebuilder site or Webdna Lab etc.. all use movefile... they are also defaulting the system umask settings, which,like I said, is usually set at 022 (the octal complement ofthe permissions I stated).So, one way for Ken to perhaps fix his issue is to set theumask to the desired octal complement:umask 002We *could* change the system umask settings via during WebDNA install..but I have opted not to do this so far because it is invasive inregards to affecting the entire system. Also, I am aware of differentLinux distros having different options... meaning, I think somesystems have the ability to set default perms based ongroup. Also, I am aware of the ability to set defaults per theshell that is being used.Anyway, as of now, I install webdna and then change the umask to my liking.. but there may be different opinions that I should hear.. so, if you have some strong opinions about this, I'm all ears.Donovan(p.s. yes, we will look into the movefile tag to perhaps utilizethe admin permission settings when priorities permit). For now,there are lots of work-arounds regardless if this will be classifiedas a bug or not.-- Donovan BrookeWebDNA Software Corporationhttp://www.webdna.us**[Square Bracket Utopia]** Donovan Brooke

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