Re: [WebDNA] maybe silly suggestion? [founditems]
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2015
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 111940
interpreted = N
texte = One comment concerning the debate about "advanced programming concepts". = I have no shame to confess that I am not a OOP guru. What interest me is giving WebDNA a set of powerful and modern new tools = that can be understood by someone without an engineering degree. Existing developers in OOP languages are probably not interested in = WebDNA anyway: learning an OOP language has needed a personal investment = that few will consider to drop to move to WebDNA. WebDNA is a different concept, it is smart, elegant, easy and powerful. = It can be easily learned in a week by a beginner and gives advanced = users the satisfaction to design their applications the way they want, = whatever it is. So, don=92t expect WebDNA to start adopting other languages syntax and = architecture if there is a WebDNA way to do things. For instance, I don=92t like the current implementation of xml or some = aspects of arrays: it is not "webdna-like" and can be difficult to = understand. There have been many good ideas and my to-do list is full :-) - chris > On 16 Jan 2015, at 00:29, Donovan Brooke
wrote: >=20 > All great food for thought (as usual) Brian=85 and your example below = takes clues from OOP (in the context of what we can deliver with WebDNA = anyway). >=20 > These ideals are harking on more =93advanced=94 programming concepts = (encapsulation, inheritance, etc..) which not everyone will get, = especially those that have not worked in other languages. The idea is = not only separation of code, but encapsulation of data, code-reuse, = etc..=20 >=20 > Anytime this sort of thing is discussed, I think it needs to be = thought about in the context of standardized > programming styles (MVC, OOP features, etc.)=85 especially for = attracting existing developers to WebDNA. >=20 > Unfortunately, understanding these concepts to the point of anything = that resembles a good implimentation is just not something WSC is = equipped to do at the moment (no offense to WSC).=20 >=20 > Keeping programming styles out of it and the discussion limited to = saving found item sets=85 >=20 > I personally think, since there currently exists workarounds, WSC has = enough higher (more easily understood) priorities that would keep them = busy until they can hire the right people they need to make steps that = involve these kinds of changes for =93contemporary programming ideals=94.=20= >=20 > Right now, your Table example, or even writing data sets to a file or = a variable, works.=20 >=20 > Personally, I get excited when people like you (and Brian Burton, = etc..) start commenting on the forum. ;-) Now we just need to hear from = people like John peacock, Bob minor, Jay, John, grant, scott, etc.. = All you guys helped me advance in server-side web programming in some = fashion.=20 >=20 > my .02=A2 > Donovan >=20 >=20 > Just a side note.. I certainly think that OOP (and even MVC) is not = necessarily necessary in most of the projects being created in the Web = Programming world. Many would say different... especially .NET schooled = people. ;-) But it is over-kill in many cases IMO. Sometimes you just = want the ability to easily display and edit some data from a table. ;-) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jan 15, 2015, at 1:41 PM, iPhonzie@G wrote: >=20 >> Chris - >> I think I addressed your question briefly before: >>=20 >> "Internal to the WebDNA engine, this may well leverage the same code = as [table] - the [savefounditems] could create a private table and = [listfounditems] could execute a generic unranked search of that table=94 >>=20 >> So a saved found item set would essentially be a private table, that = the engine has access to but the developer can only access via = [listfounditems]. >>=20 >> I do similar things with currently available syntax in some cases, = but it=92s messy and could be much more efficient done in the WebDNA = engine. >>=20 >> Here=92s the example using tables (sans performance optimizations): >>=20 >> [table name=3Dnamepeople&fields=3D[listfields = people.db][fieldname],[/listfields]][/table] >> [search = db=3Dpeople.db&eqfirstnamedatarq=3D[firstname]&allhit=3D1&lastnamesort=3D1= &max=3D25] >> [if [numfound]=3D0][then] >> [DO ERROR STUFF] >> [/then][else] >> [founditems] >> [append table=3Dnamepeople][listfields people.db][showif = [index]>1]&[/showif][fieldname]=3D[url][interpret][[fieldname]][/interpret= ][/url][/listfields][/append] >> [/founditems] >> [/else][/if] >> [/search] >>=20 >> [table name=3Dcitypeople&fields=3D[listfields = people.db][fieldname],[/listfields]][/table] >> [search = db=3Dpeople.db&eqcitydatarq=3D[city]&allhit=3D1&lastnamesort=3D1&firstname= sort=3D2&max=3D25] >> [if [numfound]=3D0][then] >> [DO ERROR STUFF] >> [/then][else] >> [founditems] >> [append table=3Dcitypeople][listfields people.db][showif = [index]>1]&[/showif][fieldname]=3D[url][interpret][[fieldname]][/interpret= ][/url][/listfields][/append] >> [/founditems] >> [/else][/if] >> [/search] >>=20 >> [function name=3Dshowpeople] >> >> [search = table=3D[params_string]&nefirstnamedatarq=3D_bogus_&rank=3Doff] >> [founditems] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [/founditems] >> [/search] >> | [index]] | [firstname] | [lastname] | [city] | [any field in people.db] |
>> [/function] >>=20 >> =85 >>=20 >> People named [firstname]: >> [showpeople namepeople] >>=20 >> People from [city]: >> [showpeople citypeople] >>=20 >>=20 >> =97 Brian Fries >>=20 >> On January 15, 2015 at 11:16:15 AM, christophe.billiottet@webdna.us = (christophe.billiottet@webdna.us) wrote: >>=20 >>> It seems to me a little complicated: let=92s take your example=20 >>>=20 >>> [search = people.db&eqfirstnamedatarq=3D[firstname]&allhit=3D1&lastnamesort=3D1&max=3D= 25]=20 >>> [if [numfound]=3D0][then]=20 >>> [DO ERROR STUFF]=20 >>> [/then][else]=20 >>> [savefounditems namepeople]=20 >>> [/else][/if]=20 >>> [/search]=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> This is fine for a two columns database, but if the database = includes 10 columns, is [savefounditems] supposed to store everything? = what should be the format of the data stored? how would it be sorted by = [showpeople namepeople]=20 >>>=20 >>> we could do that instead of [savefounditems namepeople]:=20 >>>=20 >>> [text]name[index]=3D[firstname],[/text]=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> which will give us=20 >>>=20 >>> name1=3DJim,name2=3DBob,name3=3DChris,name4=3DBrian=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> - chris=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 15 Jan 2015, at 21:27, iPhonzie@G wrote:=20 >>>>=20 >>>> I really like the idea of [savefounditems] / [displayfounditems] = (or maybe [listfounditems] for consistency with other looping context = names).=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Chris, if your [sto] concept is about persistent globally available = values, then I don=92t think that applies to the need here - the saved = results generally only need to persist for the life of the current page.=20= >>>>=20 >>>> Internal to the WebDNA engine, this may well leverage the same code = as [table] - the [savefounditems] could create a private table and = [listfounditems] could execute a generic unranked search of that table=20= >>>>=20 >>>> With [savefounditems], you could save several sets of searches on = the same database, such as =93peoplenameddave=94 and = =93peoplefromalbuquerque=94, gathered at the top of your page with = appropriate error responses, etc. Later in the display portion of your = page you could call a common function to display HTML tables of Daves = and Albequerqians.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> So, given a page with formvariables =93firstname=94 and =93city=94, = the top of your code could do:=20 >>>>=20 >>>> [search = people.db&eqfirstnamedatarq=3D[firstname]&allhit=3D1&lastnamesort=3D1&max=3D= 25]=20 >>>> [if [numfound]=3D0][then]=20 >>>> DO ERROR STUFF]=20 >>>> [/then][else]=20 >>>> [savefounditems namepeople]=20 >>>> [/else][/if]=20 >>>> [/search]=20 >>>>=20 >>>> [search = people.db&eqcitydatarq=3D[city]&allhit=3D1&lastnamesort=3D1&firstnamesort=3D= 2&max=3D25]=20 >>>> [if [numfound]=3D0][then]=20 >>>> DO ERROR STUFF]=20 >>>> [/then][else]=20 >>>> [savefounditems citypeople]=20 >>>> [/else][/if]=20 >>>> [/search]=20 >>>>=20 >>>> [function name=3Dshowpeople]=20 >>>> =20 >>>> [listfounditems [params_string]]=20 >>>> = =20 >>>> [/listfounditems]=20 >>>> | [index]] | [firstname] | [lastname] | [city] | [any field in people.db] |
=20 >>>> [/function]=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Later in the display code you could do:=20 >>>>=20 >>>> People named [firstname]:=20 >>>> [showpeople namepeople]=20 >>>>=20 >>>> People from [city]:=20 >>>> [showpeople citypeople]=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> =97 Brian Fries=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On January 15, 2015 at 9:55:07 AM, Terry Wilson = (terry@terryfic.com) wrote:=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> Or just put the search parameters in a variable up top to retrieve = as needed with showifs. This is quite handy for repurposing found items = loops, such as a nicely formatted table of info that is sorted by = various fields (just discussed this a few days ago). This has the added = benefit of letting you keep constants like eventdatetype=3Ddate, max=3D25,= etc in the actual search code to keep your parameters easier to read = and manage. This would certainly put your controller logic separate from = your display code.=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> [showif = [somesearch]=3Dt][text]searchforwhat=3Ddb=3Dallthethings.db&blahblahblah[/= text][/showif]=20 >>>>> [showif = [someothersearch]=3Dt][text]searchforwhat=3Ddb=3Dallthethings.db&blahblahb= lah[/text][/showif]=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> [search [searchforwhat]&max=3D25&lastnamesort=3D1]=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Jan 14, 2015, at 2:57 PM, Brian Burton = wrote:=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> to help separate my controller logic from my display code it = would be awesome to have a shortcut like:=20 >>>>>>> [search db=3Dallthethings.db&blahblahblah][savefounditems = name=3Dpeoplenameddave][/search]=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> then later in the page, where i=92m rendering the html=20 >>>>>>> [displayfounditems use=3Dpeoplenameddave] html things = [/displayfounditems]=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I know it looks like it=92s not saving that much code, but I can = see switching which search I want in the controller, and still being = able to use a universal founditems loop lower in the code. Also the = ability to reuse search results (if needed) without doing the same = search again.=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> ok, feel free to start telling me how you can do this with a = table (you=92re missing the point) or how we don=92t need more tags or = whatever :)=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -Brian B. Burton=20 >>>>>=20 >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . = To unsubscribe, E-mail to: archives: = http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us=20 >>>=20 >>> ---------------------------------------------------------=20 >>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to=20 >>> the mailing list .=20 >>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: =20 >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us=20 >>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us=20 >> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . = To unsubscribe, E-mail to: archives: = http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
One comment concerning the debate about "advanced programming concepts". = I have no shame to confess that I am not a OOP guru. What interest me is giving WebDNA a set of powerful and modern new tools = that can be understood by someone without an engineering degree. Existing developers in OOP languages are probably not interested in = WebDNA anyway: learning an OOP language has needed a personal investment = that few will consider to drop to move to WebDNA. WebDNA is a different concept, it is smart, elegant, easy and powerful. = It can be easily learned in a week by a beginner and gives advanced = users the satisfaction to design their applications the way they want, = whatever it is. So, don=92t expect WebDNA to start adopting other languages syntax and = architecture if there is a WebDNA way to do things. For instance, I don=92t like the current implementation of xml or some = aspects of arrays: it is not "webdna-like" and can be difficult to = understand. There have been many good ideas and my to-do list is full :-) - chris > On 16 Jan 2015, at 00:29, Donovan Brooke wrote: >=20 > All great food for thought (as usual) Brian=85 and your example below = takes clues from OOP (in the context of what we can deliver with WebDNA = anyway). >=20 > These ideals are harking on more =93advanced=94 programming concepts = (encapsulation, inheritance, etc..) which not everyone will get, = especially those that have not worked in other languages. The idea is = not only separation of code, but encapsulation of data, code-reuse, = etc..=20 >=20 > Anytime this sort of thing is discussed, I think it needs to be = thought about in the context of standardized > programming styles (MVC, OOP features, etc.)=85 especially for = attracting existing developers to WebDNA. >=20 > Unfortunately, understanding these concepts to the point of anything = that resembles a good implimentation is just not something WSC is = equipped to do at the moment (no offense to WSC).=20 >=20 > Keeping programming styles out of it and the discussion limited to = saving found item sets=85 >=20 > I personally think, since there currently exists workarounds, WSC has = enough higher (more easily understood) priorities that would keep them = busy until they can hire the right people they need to make steps that = involve these kinds of changes for =93contemporary programming ideals=94.=20= >=20 > Right now, your Table example, or even writing data sets to a file or = a variable, works.=20 >=20 > Personally, I get excited when people like you (and Brian Burton, = etc..) start commenting on the forum. ;-) Now we just need to hear from = people like John peacock, Bob minor, Jay, John, grant, scott, etc.. = All you guys helped me advance in server-side web programming in some = fashion.=20 >=20 > my .02=A2 > Donovan >=20 >=20 > Just a side note.. I certainly think that OOP (and even MVC) is not = necessarily necessary in most of the projects being created in the Web = Programming world. Many would say different... especially .NET schooled = people. ;-) But it is over-kill in many cases IMO. Sometimes you just = want the ability to easily display and edit some data from a table. ;-) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jan 15, 2015, at 1:41 PM, iPhonzie@G wrote: >=20 >> Chris - >> I think I addressed your question briefly before: >>=20 >> "Internal to the WebDNA engine, this may well leverage the same code = as [table] - the [savefounditems] could create a private table and = [listfounditems] could execute a generic unranked search of that table=94 >>=20 >> So a saved found item set would essentially be a private table, that = the engine has access to but the developer can only access via = [listfounditems]. >>=20 >> I do similar things with currently available syntax in some cases, = but it=92s messy and could be much more efficient done in the WebDNA = engine. >>=20 >> Here=92s the example using tables (sans performance optimizations): >>=20 >> [table name=3Dnamepeople&fields=3D[listfields = people.db][fieldname],[/listfields]][/table] >> [search = db=3Dpeople.db&eqfirstnamedatarq=3D[firstname]&allhit=3D1&lastnamesort=3D1= &max=3D25] >> [if [numfound]=3D0][then] >> [DO ERROR STUFF] >> [/then][else] >> [founditems] >> [append table=3Dnamepeople][listfields people.db][showif = [index]>1]&[/showif][fieldname]=3D[url][interpret][[fieldname]][/interpret= ][/url][/listfields][/append] >> [/founditems] >> [/else][/if] >> [/search] >>=20 >> [table name=3Dcitypeople&fields=3D[listfields = people.db][fieldname],[/listfields]][/table] >> [search = db=3Dpeople.db&eqcitydatarq=3D[city]&allhit=3D1&lastnamesort=3D1&firstname= sort=3D2&max=3D25] >> [if [numfound]=3D0][then] >> [DO ERROR STUFF] >> [/then][else] >> [founditems] >> [append table=3Dcitypeople][listfields people.db][showif = [index]>1]&[/showif][fieldname]=3D[url][interpret][[fieldname]][/interpret= ][/url][/listfields][/append] >> [/founditems] >> [/else][/if] >> [/search] >>=20 >> [function name=3Dshowpeople] >> >> [search = table=3D[params_string]&nefirstnamedatarq=3D_bogus_&rank=3Doff] >> [founditems] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [/founditems] >> [/search] >> | [index]] | [firstname] | [lastname] | [city] | [any field in people.db] |
>> [/function] >>=20 >> =85 >>=20 >> People named [firstname]: >> [showpeople namepeople] >>=20 >> People from [city]: >> [showpeople citypeople] >>=20 >>=20 >> =97 Brian Fries >>=20 >> On January 15, 2015 at 11:16:15 AM, christophe.billiottet@webdna.us = (christophe.billiottet@webdna.us) wrote: >>=20 >>> It seems to me a little complicated: let=92s take your example=20 >>>=20 >>> [search = people.db&eqfirstnamedatarq=3D[firstname]&allhit=3D1&lastnamesort=3D1&max=3D= 25]=20 >>> [if [numfound]=3D0][then]=20 >>> [DO ERROR STUFF]=20 >>> [/then][else]=20 >>> [savefounditems namepeople]=20 >>> [/else][/if]=20 >>> [/search]=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> This is fine for a two columns database, but if the database = includes 10 columns, is [savefounditems] supposed to store everything? = what should be the format of the data stored? how would it be sorted by = [showpeople namepeople]=20 >>>=20 >>> we could do that instead of [savefounditems namepeople]:=20 >>>=20 >>> [text]name[index]=3D[firstname],[/text]=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> which will give us=20 >>>=20 >>> name1=3DJim,name2=3DBob,name3=3DChris,name4=3DBrian=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> - chris=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 15 Jan 2015, at 21:27, iPhonzie@G wrote:=20 >>>>=20 >>>> I really like the idea of [savefounditems] / [displayfounditems] = (or maybe [listfounditems] for consistency with other looping context = names).=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Chris, if your [sto] concept is about persistent globally available = values, then I don=92t think that applies to the need here - the saved = results generally only need to persist for the life of the current page.=20= >>>>=20 >>>> Internal to the WebDNA engine, this may well leverage the same code = as [table] - the [savefounditems] could create a private table and = [listfounditems] could execute a generic unranked search of that table=20= >>>>=20 >>>> With [savefounditems], you could save several sets of searches on = the same database, such as =93peoplenameddave=94 and = =93peoplefromalbuquerque=94, gathered at the top of your page with = appropriate error responses, etc. Later in the display portion of your = page you could call a common function to display HTML tables of Daves = and Albequerqians.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> So, given a page with formvariables =93firstname=94 and =93city=94, = the top of your code could do:=20 >>>>=20 >>>> [search = people.db&eqfirstnamedatarq=3D[firstname]&allhit=3D1&lastnamesort=3D1&max=3D= 25]=20 >>>> [if [numfound]=3D0][then]=20 >>>> DO ERROR STUFF]=20 >>>> [/then][else]=20 >>>> [savefounditems namepeople]=20 >>>> [/else][/if]=20 >>>> [/search]=20 >>>>=20 >>>> [search = people.db&eqcitydatarq=3D[city]&allhit=3D1&lastnamesort=3D1&firstnamesort=3D= 2&max=3D25]=20 >>>> [if [numfound]=3D0][then]=20 >>>> DO ERROR STUFF]=20 >>>> [/then][else]=20 >>>> [savefounditems citypeople]=20 >>>> [/else][/if]=20 >>>> [/search]=20 >>>>=20 >>>> [function name=3Dshowpeople]=20 >>>> =20 >>>> [listfounditems [params_string]]=20 >>>> = =20 >>>> [/listfounditems]=20 >>>> | [index]] | [firstname] | [lastname] | [city] | [any field in people.db] |
=20 >>>> [/function]=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Later in the display code you could do:=20 >>>>=20 >>>> People named [firstname]:=20 >>>> [showpeople namepeople]=20 >>>>=20 >>>> People from [city]:=20 >>>> [showpeople citypeople]=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> =97 Brian Fries=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On January 15, 2015 at 9:55:07 AM, Terry Wilson = (terry@terryfic.com) wrote:=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> Or just put the search parameters in a variable up top to retrieve = as needed with showifs. This is quite handy for repurposing found items = loops, such as a nicely formatted table of info that is sorted by = various fields (just discussed this a few days ago). This has the added = benefit of letting you keep constants like eventdatetype=3Ddate, max=3D25,= etc in the actual search code to keep your parameters easier to read = and manage. This would certainly put your controller logic separate from = your display code.=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> [showif = [somesearch]=3Dt][text]searchforwhat=3Ddb=3Dallthethings.db&blahblahblah[/= text][/showif]=20 >>>>> [showif = [someothersearch]=3Dt][text]searchforwhat=3Ddb=3Dallthethings.db&blahblahb= lah[/text][/showif]=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> [search [searchforwhat]&max=3D25&lastnamesort=3D1]=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Jan 14, 2015, at 2:57 PM, Brian Burton = wrote:=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> to help separate my controller logic from my display code it = would be awesome to have a shortcut like:=20 >>>>>>> [search db=3Dallthethings.db&blahblahblah][savefounditems = name=3Dpeoplenameddave][/search]=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> then later in the page, where i=92m rendering the html=20 >>>>>>> [displayfounditems use=3Dpeoplenameddave] html things = [/displayfounditems]=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I know it looks like it=92s not saving that much code, but I can = see switching which search I want in the controller, and still being = able to use a universal founditems loop lower in the code. Also the = ability to reuse search results (if needed) without doing the same = search again.=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> ok, feel free to start telling me how you can do this with a = table (you=92re missing the point) or how we don=92t need more tags or = whatever :)=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -Brian B. Burton=20 >>>>>=20 >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . = To unsubscribe, E-mail to: archives: = http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us=20 >>>=20 >>> ---------------------------------------------------------=20 >>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to=20 >>> the mailing list .=20 >>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: =20 >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us=20 >>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us=20 >> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . = To unsubscribe, E-mail to: archives: = http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
christophe.billiottet@webdna.us
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