Re: Failure to document significant changes ...
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2000
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 34086
interpreted = N
texte = Ken - Is this, by any chance, the bug you reported earlier to SM, but refused to document? How are they supposed to document issues when no one tells them about them? The beta with PROTECT=F was available for some time before the software went gold, why did you not ask about the space in fieldnames issue before then? Grant is not able to remember each and every e-mail that he has read or sent. It just so happens that under the old parser, you could have spaces in fieldnames; it was not a design choice as much as a byproduct of the parser. That had to change due to the XML-style tags; since the issue was probably raised several years ago, it is not suprising that that change was made without warning.There are a few people on this list, but mostly you, who seem to view bug reporting as a GOTCHA. Very often you report a change in a feature as a personal attack on your websites, even though the whole point of a beta test is to compare against existing sites and see what breaks. A new version will always break some feature that someone was relying on. The difference is that sometimes it was an unintentional change that can be considered a bug and fixed, and other times the change is due to a conscious decision on the part of the programmers, based on their under- standing of how the software is being used. You asked Grant 2(?) years ago if you could use spaces in fieldnames and he confirmed that the way the program was structured you could. The XML-style syntax forbids this behavior, so it was changed, because SM didn't know you were using them, and (here is the most important part) you didn't tell them during the beta.If a new version alters how existing sites operate, but the change is a side-effect of some other feature, SM is not going to be able to notify everyone about it, _unless_the_issue_is_reported_. Short of publishing their source-code, SM is under no obligation to document every single affected change; it is not realistic. That is why a beta test is so important: to test existing code for problems and to exercise new code as much as possible. If you have known about this problem for some time, it is YOUR FAULT that it is not documented, not Smith Micro's.John PeacockKenneth Grome wrote: > > >Yes, I think SM should definitely have placed a large warning to the > >effect of: > > > > Anyone stupid enough to use embedded spaces in field names will > > discover that their web sites will break, due to some updates in > > the consistency of WebCatalog's parser. > > I've had years of database experience prior to webcat. It's not news > to me that most other db programs do not allow spaces in field names. > My understanding of this situation is *exactly* why I went directly > to Grant years ago and asked him about this apparent discrepancy in > webcatalog. After all, Grant wrote the webcatalog software program, > so I expected to get the facts from him -- and I did: > > Grant *specifically* told me that he coded webcatalog to deal with > spaces in field names as if those spaces were no different from > alphanumeric characters. In fact, he said I could use spaces in my > field names with no problem -- regardless of the limitations of > *other* database program. > > He said webcat was based on a text-parsing model, and a space > character was no different to webcatalog than any other character in > a field name. And guess what? He was right! He gave me the facts, > and those facts have been true for 4 years already. We have *always* > been able to use spaces in webcat field names -- until now. > > This is not an issue of who has the most knowledge of other database > software, or what kinds of 'conventions' are used in those other > database programs. This is a clear issue of SM's failure to document > a *significant* change that can make their software incompatible with > previous webdna sites. > > It is irresponsible of SM to fail to document something like this. > > They made a special effort to change the parser in order to ELIMINATE > the space character -- so it would be XML-compliant. That's great, > but why then did they fail to tell us about it themselves, in writing > in the docs where it belongs, before releasing it? > > I really don't care whether or not they get rid of the space > character and the letters a-g and any other formerly-valid > field/parameter name characters, AS LONG AS THEY TELL US ABOUT IT IN > ADVANCE SO WE DO NOT EXPERIENCE PROBLEMS AFTER UPGRADING. > > ================================ > Kenneth Grome, WebDNA Consultant > 808-737-6499 http://webdna.net > ================================------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list
. To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://search.smithmicro.com/
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
Ken - Is this, by any chance, the bug you reported earlier to SM, but refused to document? How are they supposed to document issues when no one tells them about them? The beta with PROTECT=F was available for some time before the software went gold, why did you not ask about the space in fieldnames issue before then? Grant is not able to remember each and every e-mail that he has read or sent. It just so happens that under the old parser, you could have spaces in fieldnames; it was not a design choice as much as a byproduct of the parser. That had to change due to the XML-style tags; since the issue was probably raised several years ago, it is not suprising that that change was made without warning.There are a few people on this list, but mostly you, who seem to view bug reporting as a GOTCHA. Very often you report a change in a feature as a personal attack on your websites, even though the whole point of a beta test is to compare against existing sites and see what breaks. A new version will always break some feature that someone was relying on. The difference is that sometimes it was an unintentional change that can be considered a bug and fixed, and other times the change is due to a conscious decision on the part of the programmers, based on their under- standing of how the software is being used. You asked Grant 2(?) years ago if you could use spaces in fieldnames and he confirmed that the way the program was structured you could. The XML-style syntax forbids this behavior, so it was changed, because SM didn't know you were using them, and (here is the most important part) you didn't tell them during the beta.If a new version alters how existing sites operate, but the change is a side-effect of some other feature, SM is not going to be able to notify everyone about it, _unless_the_issue_is_reported_. Short of publishing their source-code, SM is under no obligation to document every single affected change; it is not realistic. That is why a beta test is so important: to test existing code for problems and to exercise new code as much as possible. If you have known about this problem for some time, it is YOUR FAULT that it is not documented, not Smith Micro's.John PeacockKenneth Grome wrote: > > >Yes, I think SM should definitely have placed a large warning to the > >effect of: > > > > Anyone stupid enough to use embedded spaces in field names will > > discover that their web sites will break, due to some updates in > > the consistency of WebCatalog's parser. > > I've had years of database experience prior to webcat. It's not news > to me that most other db programs do not allow spaces in field names. > My understanding of this situation is *exactly* why I went directly > to Grant years ago and asked him about this apparent discrepancy in > webcatalog. After all, Grant wrote the webcatalog software program, > so I expected to get the facts from him -- and I did: > > Grant *specifically* told me that he coded webcatalog to deal with > spaces in field names as if those spaces were no different from > alphanumeric characters. In fact, he said I could use spaces in my > field names with no problem -- regardless of the limitations of > *other* database program. > > He said webcat was based on a text-parsing model, and a space > character was no different to webcatalog than any other character in > a field name. And guess what? He was right! He gave me the facts, > and those facts have been true for 4 years already. We have *always* > been able to use spaces in webcat field names -- until now. > > This is not an issue of who has the most knowledge of other database > software, or what kinds of 'conventions' are used in those other > database programs. This is a clear issue of SM's failure to document > a *significant* change that can make their software incompatible with > previous webdna sites. > > It is irresponsible of SM to fail to document something like this. > > They made a special effort to change the parser in order to ELIMINATE > the space character -- so it would be XML-compliant. That's great, > but why then did they fail to tell us about it themselves, in writing > in the docs where it belongs, before releasing it? > > I really don't care whether or not they get rid of the space > character and the letters a-g and any other formerly-valid > field/parameter name characters, AS LONG AS THEY TELL US ABOUT IT IN > ADVANCE SO WE DO NOT EXPERIENCE PROBLEMS AFTER UPGRADING. > > ================================ > Kenneth Grome, WebDNA Consultant > 808-737-6499 http://webdna.net > ================================------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://search.smithmicro.com/
John Peacock
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