Re: [WebDNA] OT: what is the "right" platform ?
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2009
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 104181
interpreted = N
texte = Thierry, Sounds like your setup is perfect though i think moving to intel is a = good choice and probably overdue. We also run eims but run ASSP in front = of it for grey listing and spam/virus monitoring etc Dovecot can work = under this scenario as the ASSP machine handles what dovecot lacks.=20 The gui is good enough, we hadn't used it in the passed because of = special configs, but we have moved special configs to one server and the = other server is more simplistic so we can use the gui. The old gui = wouldn't deal with overrides .htaccess and rewrites well. We haven't = fully tested the new gui under all these issues. We will have more info = as we move more sites over to the new SL Servers. I would think you can use Apple's Gui going forward on the new server. = No reason you can't use it for managing apache and 100+ domains.=20 Bob On Dec 16, 2009, at 2:58 PM, Thierry Almy wrote: > We're running about 60 sites, all built with our cms based on webdna. = the server is a g5, osx 10.4, iTools 8.2.=20 > For mail we use EIMS on a separate machine and the dns are on two = minis, running the men and mice suite.=20 >=20 > I think the webserver has reached a limit, where it runs stable and = fast enough for this 60 sites, eventually we'll move this one later to = intel and updating to itools 9, but this has no hurry. >=20 > Beside we'll setup the second server for new sites. >=20 > We also run a SL server with iCal Server, FileServices and Podcast = Producer. The GUI is really getting better and better with each release = and the possibilities to manage Apache are looking nice ... I just never = used it to host customer websites, just for the wiki stuff, which is = quite useful in my opinion. >=20 > So this is the main question: is the SL Servers Apache GUI good enough = to manage dozens of customer sites? > We don't need a lot of special configs, just web- and ftp/webdav = access ... >=20 >=20 > I totally agree, a mini is not a platform for hosting customer sites = and running services on separate machines is the only solution for us = (mail, web, dns). >=20 >=20 > What I've seen so far on the SL Server is .... > - the configuration is a lot easier than on Leopard Server > - I wouldn't use dovecot because of the lack of greylisting > - Podcast Producer 2 can be quite tricky to configure, till now we = were unable to receive notifications by email after PP2 has finished a = job > - iCal Server lacks a few features we're waiting for (real group = calenders, invitations and delegations on the iPhone, group address = books on the CardDAV server) >=20 >=20 > Btw, we're using Retrospect 8 on a separate machine to backup all the = servers. The first try on a g4 xserve was totally unstable, it = definitely needs a fast Intel machine! >=20 > Thierry=20 >=20 >=20 > Am 16.12.2009 um 20:55 schrieb Bob Minor: >=20 >> I agree with this assessment, the advantages that an xserve bring are = in the amount of memory, drives, and hardware monitoring that goes into = them. If you need those features and plenty of folks do then the xserve = is a great way to go. We don't use iTools, but we can see its value for = some folks. I am fairly proficient with the command line and can deal = with most config issues that way. we also use the gui and with each = iteration the gui gets better. I wouldn't trust commerce level sites to = a mac mini unless I was sure of its backups, the xserve gives you that. = We have a lot of people get their feet wet with the mac mini running = snow leopard and snow leopard server, when they outgrow their hardware = they move up to an xserve and they usually know well in advance that its = time for the move. >>=20 >> Robert Minor >> Director of Internet Services >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Cybermill Communications =20 >> http://www.cybermill.com=20 >>=20 >> Providing Ecommerce and interactive website development and >> hosting services on Macintosh, Windows NT, *nix, and AS/400. >>=20 >> Complete ddos proofting solutions and network services. >>=20 >> On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Patrick McCormick wrote: >>=20 >>> It might be worth considering an ordinary SL machine (not the = server) and installing something like webmin to help manage apache, = bind, and whatever other services you want the machine to run. >>>=20 >>> If you don't have to manage lots of different sites and domains, = this works out well. You end up with lots of minis, each one handling = only a few domains. If you plan to load up each machine, you might = prefer a box that can handle more drives as the load grows. >>>=20 >>> I like how simple managing an ordinary SL machine is. It's already = familiar to me and I can really control what I don't want running for = security sake. >>>=20 >>> I don't think there's any performance difference between SL Server = and regular SL. They both use Apache, Bind, etc. SL Server provides more = management tools and file sharing features, but for web hosting, there's = not that much difference. >>>=20 >>> Pat >>>=20 >>> On Dec 16, 2009, at 9:39 AM, Thierry Almy wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hi >>>>=20 >>>> We're about to set up a new webserver and think about what system = to use ... it has to run on OS X, with Apache and WebDNA plus a few = tools like ImageMagick. >>>>=20 >>>> We're using iTools for years now. I like the product, the support = is ok (while the mailing list is poor), it runs quite stable but can be = tricky in case of problems / upgrades ... but anyhow, we know in urgent = cases we've got a helping hand at Tenon.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> But ... why not using SnowLeo Server and manage Apache with the = ServerAdmin in there? >>>>=20 >>>> What are the benefits of OS X Server as an Apache server? >>>> Is it more difficult to update future releases of Apache? >>>>=20 >>>> What are you guys using? >>>>=20 >>>> Thierry >>>>=20 >>>> ______________________ >>>> mac&web gmbh >>>> thierry almy >>>> grabenstrasse 15 >>>> 8200 schaffhausen >>>> switzerland >>>> tel +41 (0)52 620 30 60 >>>> fax +41 (0)52 620 30 61 >>>> mail almy@mac-web.ch >>>> web www.mac-web.ch >>>>=20 >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >>>> the mailing list
. >>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >>>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >>>> Bug Reporting: = http://forum.webdna.us/eucabb.html?page=3Dtopics&category=3D288 >>>=20 >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >>> the mailing list . >>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >>> Bug Reporting: = http://forum.webdna.us/eucabb.html?page=3Dtopics&category=3D288 >>=20 >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >> the mailing list . >> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >> Bug Reporting: = http://forum.webdna.us/eucabb.html?page=3Dtopics&category=3D288 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ > Bug Reporting: = http://forum.webdna.us/eucabb.html?page=3Dtopics&category=3D288
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
Thierry, Sounds like your setup is perfect though i think moving to intel is a = good choice and probably overdue. We also run eims but run ASSP in front = of it for grey listing and spam/virus monitoring etc Dovecot can work = under this scenario as the ASSP machine handles what dovecot lacks.=20 The gui is good enough, we hadn't used it in the passed because of = special configs, but we have moved special configs to one server and the = other server is more simplistic so we can use the gui. The old gui = wouldn't deal with overrides .htaccess and rewrites well. We haven't = fully tested the new gui under all these issues. We will have more info = as we move more sites over to the new SL Servers. I would think you can use Apple's Gui going forward on the new server. = No reason you can't use it for managing apache and 100+ domains.=20 Bob On Dec 16, 2009, at 2:58 PM, Thierry Almy wrote: > We're running about 60 sites, all built with our cms based on webdna. = the server is a g5, osx 10.4, iTools 8.2.=20 > For mail we use EIMS on a separate machine and the dns are on two = minis, running the men and mice suite.=20 >=20 > I think the webserver has reached a limit, where it runs stable and = fast enough for this 60 sites, eventually we'll move this one later to = intel and updating to itools 9, but this has no hurry. >=20 > Beside we'll setup the second server for new sites. >=20 > We also run a SL server with iCal Server, FileServices and Podcast = Producer. The GUI is really getting better and better with each release = and the possibilities to manage Apache are looking nice ... I just never = used it to host customer websites, just for the wiki stuff, which is = quite useful in my opinion. >=20 > So this is the main question: is the SL Servers Apache GUI good enough = to manage dozens of customer sites? > We don't need a lot of special configs, just web- and ftp/webdav = access ... >=20 >=20 > I totally agree, a mini is not a platform for hosting customer sites = and running services on separate machines is the only solution for us = (mail, web, dns). >=20 >=20 > What I've seen so far on the SL Server is .... > - the configuration is a lot easier than on Leopard Server > - I wouldn't use dovecot because of the lack of greylisting > - Podcast Producer 2 can be quite tricky to configure, till now we = were unable to receive notifications by email after PP2 has finished a = job > - iCal Server lacks a few features we're waiting for (real group = calenders, invitations and delegations on the iPhone, group address = books on the CardDAV server) >=20 >=20 > Btw, we're using Retrospect 8 on a separate machine to backup all the = servers. The first try on a g4 xserve was totally unstable, it = definitely needs a fast Intel machine! >=20 > Thierry=20 >=20 >=20 > Am 16.12.2009 um 20:55 schrieb Bob Minor: >=20 >> I agree with this assessment, the advantages that an xserve bring are = in the amount of memory, drives, and hardware monitoring that goes into = them. If you need those features and plenty of folks do then the xserve = is a great way to go. We don't use iTools, but we can see its value for = some folks. I am fairly proficient with the command line and can deal = with most config issues that way. we also use the gui and with each = iteration the gui gets better. I wouldn't trust commerce level sites to = a mac mini unless I was sure of its backups, the xserve gives you that. = We have a lot of people get their feet wet with the mac mini running = snow leopard and snow leopard server, when they outgrow their hardware = they move up to an xserve and they usually know well in advance that its = time for the move. >>=20 >> Robert Minor >> Director of Internet Services >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Cybermill Communications =20 >> http://www.cybermill.com=20 >>=20 >> Providing Ecommerce and interactive website development and >> hosting services on Macintosh, Windows NT, *nix, and AS/400. >>=20 >> Complete ddos proofting solutions and network services. >>=20 >> On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Patrick McCormick wrote: >>=20 >>> It might be worth considering an ordinary SL machine (not the = server) and installing something like webmin to help manage apache, = bind, and whatever other services you want the machine to run. >>>=20 >>> If you don't have to manage lots of different sites and domains, = this works out well. You end up with lots of minis, each one handling = only a few domains. If you plan to load up each machine, you might = prefer a box that can handle more drives as the load grows. >>>=20 >>> I like how simple managing an ordinary SL machine is. It's already = familiar to me and I can really control what I don't want running for = security sake. >>>=20 >>> I don't think there's any performance difference between SL Server = and regular SL. They both use Apache, Bind, etc. SL Server provides more = management tools and file sharing features, but for web hosting, there's = not that much difference. >>>=20 >>> Pat >>>=20 >>> On Dec 16, 2009, at 9:39 AM, Thierry Almy wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hi >>>>=20 >>>> We're about to set up a new webserver and think about what system = to use ... it has to run on OS X, with Apache and WebDNA plus a few = tools like ImageMagick. >>>>=20 >>>> We're using iTools for years now. I like the product, the support = is ok (while the mailing list is poor), it runs quite stable but can be = tricky in case of problems / upgrades ... but anyhow, we know in urgent = cases we've got a helping hand at Tenon.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> But ... why not using SnowLeo Server and manage Apache with the = ServerAdmin in there? >>>>=20 >>>> What are the benefits of OS X Server as an Apache server? >>>> Is it more difficult to update future releases of Apache? >>>>=20 >>>> What are you guys using? >>>>=20 >>>> Thierry >>>>=20 >>>> ______________________ >>>> mac&web gmbh >>>> thierry almy >>>> grabenstrasse 15 >>>> 8200 schaffhausen >>>> switzerland >>>> tel +41 (0)52 620 30 60 >>>> fax +41 (0)52 620 30 61 >>>> mail almy@mac-web.ch >>>> web www.mac-web.ch >>>>=20 >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >>>> the mailing list . >>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >>>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >>>> Bug Reporting: = http://forum.webdna.us/eucabb.html?page=3Dtopics&category=3D288 >>>=20 >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >>> the mailing list . >>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >>> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >>> Bug Reporting: = http://forum.webdna.us/eucabb.html?page=3Dtopics&category=3D288 >>=20 >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >> the mailing list . >> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >> old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ >> Bug Reporting: = http://forum.webdna.us/eucabb.html?page=3Dtopics&category=3D288 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > old archives: http://dev.webdna.us/TalkListArchive/ > Bug Reporting: = http://forum.webdna.us/eucabb.html?page=3Dtopics&category=3D288
Bob Minor
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