Re: [WebDNA] An unknown error occured // Deadlock avoided
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2011
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 106896
interpreted = N
texte = I do come from an OO background, and I certainly don't question the speed and easy it is to build things in webDNA, simply that I find it very difficult to maintain. As noted by yourself. It becomes even more difficult when you inherit a system that has had no background in planning, and hasnt been cleaned up in 8 years. All that aside. Only two places is the online.db file used. One is just a search with nothing else done to it. The other appends or replaces in online.db I am guessing this is where the problem is. Despite this appearing to be a windows problem, I hope someone will look at this and perhaps comment if it is even sane to do something like this. topbanner.inc [search db=3D[path]../../database/online.db&eqDB_IPdatarq=3D[IPAddress]] [showIf [numFound]=3D0] [append db=3D[path]../../database/online.db]DB_IP=3D[IPAddress]&DB_DATO=3D[DATE]&= DB_TID=3D[time]&DB_URL=3D[url][ThisURL]?a=3Db[FormVariables][hideIf [name]=3Dtemplate]&[name]=3D[value][/hideIf][/FormVariables][/url]&DB_KUN= DEID=3D[kunde]&DB_BROWSER=3D[url][browser][/url]&DB_URL_REF=3D[url][REFER= RER][/url][/append] [search db=3D[path]../../database/counter.db&eqDB_DATOdata=3D[date %Y/%m= /%d]] [showIf [numFound]<1] [append db=3D[path]../../database/counter.db]DB_DATO=3D[date %Y/%m/%d]&DB_ANTAL=3D1[/append] [/showIf] [showIf [numFound]>0] =20 [replacefoundItems]DB_ANTAL=3D[math][DB_ANTAL]+1[/math][/replacefoundIte= ms] [/showIf] [/search] [/showIf] [showIf [numFound]=3D1] [replace db=3D[path]../../database/online.db&eqDB_IPdatarq=3D[IPAddress]]DB_DATO=3D= [DATE]&DB_TID=3D[time]&DB_URL=3D[url][ThisURL]?a=3Db[FormVariables][hideI= f [name]=3Dtemplate]&[name]=3D[value][/hideIf][/FormVariables][/url]&DB_KUN= DEID=3D[kunde][/replace] [/showIf] [/search] With regards to duplicating the error, I tried forcing the issue on our previous webserver, we still have this computer - it is just tucked away ready to be gutted and recycled - and I could not replicate the error. Perhaps it is a matter of achieve a certain level of visits before the db becomes locked enough for it to have an effect. In our case, this ahs bee= n happening for quite some time, I dare say the entire time but I cant be sure, as I only took over this system a few years ago. But never has it been happening more often than it currently is, considering we changed servers just before christmas, it could be a windows issue as has been pointed out. I have complete access to all servers, its just not everything I am qualified to tamper with. I am by no means an MSSQL expert, but I shall speak to our MSSQL guy and see if he cant fiddle with the app pool. In regards to getting someone to look at it, we have debated that quite a bi= t here - always the same problem arises. I am not sure how to have anyone look at it, when I am not able to determine where the problem(s) originat= e, the system is vast (250.000 lines - something which I think is alot, ever= y previous system I have ever encountered or worked with, has been around 50.000 - 100.000 and has had mroe features than this system, granted that is not webdna's fault but more a design error from the original implementors of this system. So seeing as it has taking me about 2=C2=BD = years to get a somewhat clear image of what is going on. I don't know how I cou= ld get someone else to look at this system and make recommendations, unfortunately. With regarding to the MSSQL and the online.db lock, I don't think they related the online.db has no relation to the MSSQL server, the MSSQL handles a lot of other things - I am considering moving this functionalit= y into MSSQL, as that would atleast resolve the deadlock problem, or so I hope. /Tommy On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 00:05:45 -0700, Ronald Kirkland
wrote: > Hey Tom, >=20 > No worries about the previous emails, we have all had days like that. > Let's just move this forward to and see if we cannot find a solution > for those who are having this issue. Like I said, I saw several > appearing in Google searches, Stuart, and you. >=20 > I cannot say that the code you got is bad or good, but what I can say > is that WebDNA is a "tag" based language, and as such you will often > end up with very linear coding style. This can and often does lead to > a lot of repeated code in many of the templates. If you are coming > from an OO background then this is going to seem quite > counterproductive to you. But it does allow for quick code, but it can > wreck havoc from a maintenance standpoint. Many tags have been added > over the years to help with this, functions being one of the large > ones. Over the years many of us have learned to build up code > libraries that we can call into our pages using includes, but this > does little for old legacy script. >=20 > The tag resource on WebDNA.us is perhaps one of the best tools (that I > know of) but I know how you feel. When I got hired by SmithMicro and > was handed WebDNA I was completely lost. But then I went on to start > my own development firm and continued to use for 10 years. =3D) >=20 > While I am no MSSQL expert I would suggest that you set the app pool > to recycle a lot more often. You can do this either from a memory > usage or # requests processed point. >=20 > This problem on top of the DB Lock issue you are having, I am starting > to question if your company shouldn't consider an IT Manager that > knows Windows. How much access do you have to the server(s)? >=20 > I am also curious if Stuart is connecting to an MSSQL database. Is > this issue coming from the MSSQL database connection rather than the > native flat-file system. I know I have in MSSQL hell right how with a > PHP project and know that it can be temperamental with drivers and > what not. >=20 > Then their is the mention that it seems to be coming from a template > that is sharing code. The only reason I am doubting this has anything > to do with it is that Stuart mentioned his system was working fine for > about 5 years and the issue is recent. Putting that aside, have you > considered duplicating this file and giving some of the templates > their own copy of this file to see if it helps? >=20 > Since I do not know how these sites are framed out I cannot make any > real code related suggestions that may aid in this, but it is quite > intriguing that it is happening "all of a sudden." >=20 > You said that moving to Linux was not a viable solution. Which I > understand, but do you have another windows server that you could > migrate the WebDNA server to in order to see if the issue persists? >=20 > Also you might consider contracting someone for a day or two and > giving them access to the servers to see if they can troubleshoot this > for you. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes can help. Obviously get someone > you can trust and consider using some sort of NDA or other agreement. >=20 > Best of luck. >=20 > Sincerely, > Ron >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 11:25 PM, Tommy Bell wrote= : >> Ken, >> I do apologise for not answering your questions, I must have missed it >> when >> I replied to another email. >> >> And I shouldn't have bashed on webdna, that was an error on my part. I >> was >> simply frustrated at the lack of documentation and general knowlegde >> about >> the system from my part and the company i work at. >> The previous developer has left no documentation of anything so I have to >> figure out everything from the ground up again. >> >> This unfortunately spilled into my email. >> >> /Tommy >> >> On 10-07-2011 23:17, Kenneth Grome wrote: >>> >>> I have little patience with people who come here and >>> complain, then refuse to cooperate when we try to help. =C2=A0I >>> had to ask him *twice* for answers to some important >>> questions yet he still hasn't answered -- so does he want >>> our help or not??? >>> >>> As Chris said, he hasn't provided a shred of evidence that >>> this is a WebDNA problem. =C2=A0This could easily be a Windows >>> issue which would be identified in a couple of hours if he >>> just copies the site to a Linux server and learns that he >>> cannot reproduce the problem there. >>> >>> This is why I agree with Chris that a couple hours to >>> install and test the site on a Linux server is an excellent >>> way to "cut through the crap" and possibly identify the >>> source of the problem very quickly. =C2=A0If the issue goes away >>> on Linux we have strong evidence that Windows is the culprit >>> rather than WebDNA. >>> >>> And isn't the goal in a situation like this to identify the >>> source of the problem in the least amount of time? =C2=A0It would >>> be for me, especially if the server's traffic were important >>> to me. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Kenneth Grome >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >>> the mailing list. >>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>> >> >> >> -- >> Med Venlig Hilsen >> Tommy Dahlb=C3=A6k Bell >> >> Tlf: +45 27 63 00 88 >> >> E-mail: tbell05@student.aau.dk >> E-mail: tommy@enkelthed.dk >> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >> the mailing list . >> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >> > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
I do come from an OO background, and I certainly don't question the speed and easy it is to build things in webDNA, simply that I find it very difficult to maintain. As noted by yourself. It becomes even more difficult when you inherit a system that has had no background in planning, and hasnt been cleaned up in 8 years. All that aside. Only two places is the online.db file used. One is just a search with nothing else done to it. The other appends or replaces in online.db I am guessing this is where the problem is. Despite this appearing to be a windows problem, I hope someone will look at this and perhaps comment if it is even sane to do something like this. topbanner.inc [search db=3D[path]../../database/online.db&eqDB_IPdatarq=3D[ipaddress]] [showIf [numFound]=3D0] [append db=3D[path]../../database/online.db]DB_IP=3D[ipaddress]&DB_DATO=3D[date]&= DB_TID=3D[time]&DB_URL=3D[url][thisurl]?a=3Db[formvariables][hideIf [name]=3Dtemplate]&[name]=3D[value][/hideIf][/FormVariables][/url]&DB_KUN= DEID=3D[kunde]&DB_BROWSER=3D[url][browser][/url]&DB_URL_REF=3D[url][REFER= RER][/url][/append] [search db=3D[path]../../database/counter.db&eqDB_DATOdata=3D[date %Y/%m= /%d]] [showIf [numFound]<1] [append db=3D[path]../../database/counter.db]DB_DATO=3D[date %Y/%m/%d]&DB_ANTAL=3D1[/append] [/showIf] [showIf [numFound]>0] =20 [replacefounditems]DB_ANTAL=3D[math][DB_ANTAL]+1[/math][/replacefoundIte= ms] [/showIf] [/search] [/showIf] [showIf [numFound]=3D1] [replace db=3D[path]../../database/online.db&eqDB_IPdatarq=3D[ipaddress]]DB_DATO=3D= [date]&DB_TID=3D[time]&DB_URL=3D[url][thisurl]?a=3Db[formvariables][hideI= f [name]=3Dtemplate]&[name]=3D[value][/hideIf][/FormVariables][/url]&DB_KUN= DEID=3D[kunde][/replace] [/showIf] [/search] With regards to duplicating the error, I tried forcing the issue on our previous webserver, we still have this computer - it is just tucked away ready to be gutted and recycled - and I could not replicate the error. Perhaps it is a matter of achieve a certain level of visits before the db becomes locked enough for it to have an effect. In our case, this ahs bee= n happening for quite some time, I dare say the entire time but I cant be sure, as I only took over this system a few years ago. But never has it been happening more often than it currently is, considering we changed servers just before christmas, it could be a windows issue as has been pointed out. I have complete access to all servers, its just not everything I am qualified to tamper with. I am by no means an MSSQL expert, but I shall speak to our MSSQL guy and see if he cant fiddle with the app pool. In regards to getting someone to look at it, we have debated that quite a bi= t here - always the same problem arises. I am not sure how to have anyone look at it, when I am not able to determine where the problem(s) originat= e, the system is vast (250.000 lines - something which I think is alot, ever= y previous system I have ever encountered or worked with, has been around 50.000 - 100.000 and has had mroe features than this system, granted that is not webdna's fault but more a design error from the original implementors of this system. So seeing as it has taking me about 2=C2=BD = years to get a somewhat clear image of what is going on. I don't know how I cou= ld get someone else to look at this system and make recommendations, unfortunately. With regarding to the MSSQL and the online.db lock, I don't think they related the online.db has no relation to the MSSQL server, the MSSQL handles a lot of other things - I am considering moving this functionalit= y into MSSQL, as that would atleast resolve the deadlock problem, or so I hope. /Tommy On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 00:05:45 -0700, Ronald Kirkland wrote: > Hey Tom, >=20 > No worries about the previous emails, we have all had days like that. > Let's just move this forward to and see if we cannot find a solution > for those who are having this issue. Like I said, I saw several > appearing in Google searches, Stuart, and you. >=20 > I cannot say that the code you got is bad or good, but what I can say > is that WebDNA is a "tag" based language, and as such you will often > end up with very linear coding style. This can and often does lead to > a lot of repeated code in many of the templates. If you are coming > from an OO background then this is going to seem quite > counterproductive to you. But it does allow for quick code, but it can > wreck havoc from a maintenance standpoint. Many tags have been added > over the years to help with this, functions being one of the large > ones. Over the years many of us have learned to build up code > libraries that we can call into our pages using includes, but this > does little for old legacy script. >=20 > The tag resource on WebDNA.us is perhaps one of the best tools (that I > know of) but I know how you feel. When I got hired by SmithMicro and > was handed WebDNA I was completely lost. But then I went on to start > my own development firm and continued to use for 10 years. =3D) >=20 > While I am no MSSQL expert I would suggest that you set the app pool > to recycle a lot more often. You can do this either from a memory > usage or # requests processed point. >=20 > This problem on top of the DB Lock issue you are having, I am starting > to question if your company shouldn't consider an IT Manager that > knows Windows. How much access do you have to the server(s)? >=20 > I am also curious if Stuart is connecting to an MSSQL database. Is > this issue coming from the MSSQL database connection rather than the > native flat-file system. I know I have in MSSQL hell right how with a > PHP project and know that it can be temperamental with drivers and > what not. >=20 > Then their is the mention that it seems to be coming from a template > that is sharing code. The only reason I am doubting this has anything > to do with it is that Stuart mentioned his system was working fine for > about 5 years and the issue is recent. Putting that aside, have you > considered duplicating this file and giving some of the templates > their own copy of this file to see if it helps? >=20 > Since I do not know how these sites are framed out I cannot make any > real code related suggestions that may aid in this, but it is quite > intriguing that it is happening "all of a sudden." >=20 > You said that moving to Linux was not a viable solution. Which I > understand, but do you have another windows server that you could > migrate the WebDNA server to in order to see if the issue persists? >=20 > Also you might consider contracting someone for a day or two and > giving them access to the servers to see if they can troubleshoot this > for you. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes can help. Obviously get someone > you can trust and consider using some sort of NDA or other agreement. >=20 > Best of luck. >=20 > Sincerely, > Ron >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 11:25 PM, Tommy Bell wrote= : >> Ken, >> I do apologise for not answering your questions, I must have missed it >> when >> I replied to another email. >> >> And I shouldn't have bashed on webdna, that was an error on my part. I >> was >> simply frustrated at the lack of documentation and general knowlegde >> about >> the system from my part and the company i work at. >> The previous developer has left no documentation of anything so I have to >> figure out everything from the ground up again. >> >> This unfortunately spilled into my email. >> >> /Tommy >> >> On 10-07-2011 23:17, Kenneth Grome wrote: >>> >>> I have little patience with people who come here and >>> complain, then refuse to cooperate when we try to help. =C2=A0I >>> had to ask him *twice* for answers to some important >>> questions yet he still hasn't answered -- so does he want >>> our help or not??? >>> >>> As Chris said, he hasn't provided a shred of evidence that >>> this is a WebDNA problem. =C2=A0This could easily be a Windows >>> issue which would be identified in a couple of hours if he >>> just copies the site to a Linux server and learns that he >>> cannot reproduce the problem there. >>> >>> This is why I agree with Chris that a couple hours to >>> install and test the site on a Linux server is an excellent >>> way to "cut through the crap" and possibly identify the >>> source of the problem very quickly. =C2=A0If the issue goes away >>> on Linux we have strong evidence that Windows is the culprit >>> rather than WebDNA. >>> >>> And isn't the goal in a situation like this to identify the >>> source of the problem in the least amount of time? =C2=A0It would >>> be for me, especially if the server's traffic were important >>> to me. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Kenneth Grome >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >>> the mailing list. >>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>> >> >> >> -- >> Med Venlig Hilsen >> Tommy Dahlb=C3=A6k Bell >> >> Tlf: +45 27 63 00 88 >> >> E-mail: tbell05@student.aau.dk >> E-mail: tommy@enkelthed.dk >> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to >> the mailing list . >> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: >> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us >> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >> > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us > Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us
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