Re: WebDNA Book?
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2003
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 47547
interpreted = N
texte = On second thought, maybe I *shouldn't* attempt to help write a WebDNA book, as I called the product 'WebEDNA' (WebDNA's Grandma?) and I coined the term 'maken' (...has maken great strides...) Sheesh.-Dan ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.StrongGraphicDesign.com (208) 319-0137 | Toll-free p/f 877-561-1656 ------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 08:23:23 -0800 Dan Strong
wrote: >Well, I guess I'm responsible for setting this thread on fire, so I'd like to chime back in, now >that I can see some support from the list. > >1) I think that the very first effort should be to convince SMSI that they NEED TO PUT SOME MONEY >INTO A MARKETING EFFORT SUCH AS THIS, PERIOD. It sucks that we even have to consider doing this >for free and paying for the printing ourselves. A good compromise would be for the developers to >organize and do the work for free, as Donovan suggested, and have SMSI foot the bill for the >printing/marketing/distribution. I mean, geez, If the ROI of a campaign such as this isn't >apparent enough to persuade the suits at SMSI to fork over some cash then the fact that >Advertising & Marketing is tax-deductible for a business should help to soften the 'risk-blow'... > >2) If this comes to fruition, in exchange for working for free, those who materially participated >in the project should get royalties from the sales of the book until the end of time. That is >normal for authors. > >3) I would absolutely love to participate in this, as Donovan suggested. I don't have any >particular 'area of WebEDNA expertise', but besides the normal heavy-lifting, I do have an >interest in using WebDNA to help with the actual layout of HTML pages, maybe I could contribute >to an area like that... > >4) Let's face it, folks, if SMSI doesn't contribute financially to something like this, it will >die on the vine like so many other 'community projects' I have seen come and go in my short time >on the list (anybody remember the WebDNA Contest? Or what about the WebDNA Developer Center... >not a lot of action going on there, though it's ceratianly very well done and has a lot of >potential. Not many around here have time to work for free, even if it's a labor of love. It's >easy to look at the PHP community and see all of the activity there because ITS A FREE LANGUAGE. >It's easy to contribute to a product that you didn't have to invest in. WebDNA is f%$@ing >expensive and it takes X amount of billable time to realize the ROI on that investment. We >shouldn't have to fund SMSI's Marketing Budget any more than we already do by licensing their >product. > >5) Phil, Sal, everyone, please don't take this as a bash against SMSI, it is constructive >criticism coming from a single developer who very much loves this product and sees it's current >and potential value. That's all. Take it or leave it, there's nothing personal in my statements; >it's all business. > >6) I agree with Alain that SMSI has maken great marketing strides in the past 12 months, but I >also agree with Ken, that based on historical data (that I have gleaned from 'old-timers' on the >list), it really isn't enough. More marketing =more sales=cheaper price=more sales. Somwhere this >cycle needs a boost from SMSI. > >Ok, I'm done ranting. No matter what happens, I still think that a more mainstream-friendly >WebDNA how-to book is a good idea and I would be happy to participate in it, though I would >expect to be paid for my time and/or share in the proceeds of its sale. I'm through working for >free. > >-Dan >------------------------------------------------------------ >http://www.StrongGraphicDesign.com >(208) 319-0137 | Toll-free p/f 877-561-1656 >------------------------------------------------------------ > > >On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:39:08 -0600 > Gary Krockover wrote: >>4 years of WebDNA experience come this April for me, I'm willing to pitch in >>a section or two as well. >> >> Question though, do they purposely geek you out for those pictures on the >>covers of Wrox books? Apologies to anyone here that may actually have their >>picture on a cover of a Wrox book.... : ) >> >>GK >> >> >>>This was my thoughts as well and why I suggested maybe pitching it to >>>wrox. This is how most if not all of their books are written. Just a >>>thought. I would be willing to put my 4+ years of WebDNA experience >>>into a section or two :) >>> >>>- Charles >>> >>> >>>On Friday, February 7, 2003, at 09:24 AM, Donovan wrote: >>> >>>> Just a thought. One of the things I see is that people basically >>>> say its too much time/effort for the return. This may be true >>>> for an individual but what about a committee? I would think >>>> that if each of us tackled a particular part we could get a book >>>> done fairly quickly. Perhaps some of developers with more >>>> years in the battle field (such as Ken, John P, John H, Scott, >>>> Grant (if he's not so tired with his invention yet ;-) etc.. could >>>> be chief editors or such. ( Putting some of these names together >>>> might be opening a can of worms :-)?? But, I think there is ways >>>> that we could happily achieve the goal. Such as: Maybe these Chief >>>> Editors >>>> would be give a certain aspect of the book to Edit?. This way >>>> might limit the bickering. Some of the up and coming developers >>>> (such as myself) could actually write different parts. For example, >>>> I think I am skilled enough when it comes to the Formula's database >>>> to get it blocked out and then have someone look it over for editing >>>> or critique... When I get back my comments, I would then go >>>> back and correct things. Once I have a finnished piece of text, I >>>> would send my .pdf, bbedit file (or whatever) to someone in charge of >>>> putting it >>>> together. At that point, we could either find financing (for the >>>> actuall >>>> printing) or ?. >>>> WebDNA by the developers >>>> >>>> The point is that we all have to make a living and by slicing up >>>> the responsibility, we accomplish a goal with minimal effort and >>>> we can still buy the latest Smith Micro copy of WebDNA. >>>> >>>> If it makes money, I guess we devide it up. (or throw a big >>>> party somewhere and hire some 80's hair band to play) >>>> >>>> Donovan >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -Donovan Brooke >>>> -Administrator of IT / >>>> -Assc. Art Director >>>> -Creative Services >>>> -Epsen Hillmer Graphics >>>> >>>> -402.342.1169 X297------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
On second thought, maybe I *shouldn't* attempt to help write a WebDNA book, as I called the product 'WebEDNA' (WebDNA's Grandma?) and I coined the term 'maken' (...has maken great strides...) Sheesh.-Dan ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.StrongGraphicDesign.com (208) 319-0137 | Toll-free p/f 877-561-1656 ------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 08:23:23 -0800 Dan Strong wrote: >Well, I guess I'm responsible for setting this thread on fire, so I'd like to chime back in, now >that I can see some support from the list. > >1) I think that the very first effort should be to convince SMSI that they NEED TO PUT SOME MONEY >INTO A MARKETING EFFORT SUCH AS THIS, PERIOD. It sucks that we even have to consider doing this >for free and paying for the printing ourselves. A good compromise would be for the developers to >organize and do the work for free, as Donovan suggested, and have SMSI foot the bill for the >printing/marketing/distribution. I mean, geez, If the ROI of a campaign such as this isn't >apparent enough to persuade the suits at SMSI to fork over some cash then the fact that >Advertising & Marketing is tax-deductible for a business should help to soften the 'risk-blow'... > >2) If this comes to fruition, in exchange for working for free, those who materially participated >in the project should get royalties from the sales of the book until the end of time. That is >normal for authors. > >3) I would absolutely love to participate in this, as Donovan suggested. I don't have any >particular 'area of WebEDNA expertise', but besides the normal heavy-lifting, I do have an >interest in using WebDNA to help with the actual layout of HTML pages, maybe I could contribute >to an area like that... > >4) Let's face it, folks, if SMSI doesn't contribute financially to something like this, it will >die on the vine like so many other 'community projects' I have seen come and go in my short time >on the list (anybody remember the WebDNA Contest? Or what about the WebDNA Developer Center... >not a lot of action going on there, though it's ceratianly very well done and has a lot of >potential. Not many around here have time to work for free, even if it's a labor of love. It's >easy to look at the PHP community and see all of the activity there because ITS A FREE LANGUAGE. >It's easy to contribute to a product that you didn't have to invest in. WebDNA is f%$@ing >expensive and it takes X amount of billable time to realize the ROI on that investment. We >shouldn't have to fund SMSI's Marketing Budget any more than we already do by licensing their >product. > >5) Phil, Sal, everyone, please don't take this as a bash against SMSI, it is constructive >criticism coming from a single developer who very much loves this product and sees it's current >and potential value. That's all. Take it or leave it, there's nothing personal in my statements; >it's all business. > >6) I agree with Alain that SMSI has maken great marketing strides in the past 12 months, but I >also agree with Ken, that based on historical data (that I have gleaned from 'old-timers' on the >list), it really isn't enough. More marketing =more sales=cheaper price=more sales. Somwhere this >cycle needs a boost from SMSI. > >Ok, I'm done ranting. No matter what happens, I still think that a more mainstream-friendly >WebDNA how-to book is a good idea and I would be happy to participate in it, though I would >expect to be paid for my time and/or share in the proceeds of its sale. I'm through working for >free. > >-Dan >------------------------------------------------------------ >http://www.StrongGraphicDesign.com >(208) 319-0137 | Toll-free p/f 877-561-1656 >------------------------------------------------------------ > > >On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:39:08 -0600 > Gary Krockover wrote: >>4 years of WebDNA experience come this April for me, I'm willing to pitch in >>a section or two as well. >> >> Question though, do they purposely geek you out for those pictures on the >>covers of Wrox books? Apologies to anyone here that may actually have their >>picture on a cover of a Wrox book.... : ) >> >>GK >> >> >>>This was my thoughts as well and why I suggested maybe pitching it to >>>wrox. This is how most if not all of their books are written. Just a >>>thought. I would be willing to put my 4+ years of WebDNA experience >>>into a section or two :) >>> >>>- Charles >>> >>> >>>On Friday, February 7, 2003, at 09:24 AM, Donovan wrote: >>> >>>> Just a thought. One of the things I see is that people basically >>>> say its too much time/effort for the return. This may be true >>>> for an individual but what about a committee? I would think >>>> that if each of us tackled a particular part we could get a book >>>> done fairly quickly. Perhaps some of developers with more >>>> years in the battle field (such as Ken, John P, John H, Scott, >>>> Grant (if he's not so tired with his invention yet ;-) etc.. could >>>> be chief editors or such. ( Putting some of these names together >>>> might be opening a can of worms :-)?? But, I think there is ways >>>> that we could happily achieve the goal. Such as: Maybe these Chief >>>> Editors >>>> would be give a certain aspect of the book to Edit?. This way >>>> might limit the bickering. Some of the up and coming developers >>>> (such as myself) could actually write different parts. For example, >>>> I think I am skilled enough when it comes to the Formula's database >>>> to get it blocked out and then have someone look it over for editing >>>> or critique... When I get back my comments, I would then go >>>> back and correct things. Once I have a finnished piece of text, I >>>> would send my .pdf, bbedit file (or whatever) to someone in charge of >>>> putting it >>>> together. At that point, we could either find financing (for the >>>> actuall >>>> printing) or ?. >>>> WebDNA by the developers >>>> >>>> The point is that we all have to make a living and by slicing up >>>> the responsibility, we accomplish a goal with minimal effort and >>>> we can still buy the latest Smith Micro copy of WebDNA. >>>> >>>> If it makes money, I guess we devide it up. (or throw a big >>>> party somewhere and hire some 80's hair band to play) >>>> >>>> Donovan >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -Donovan Brooke >>>> -Administrator of IT / >>>> -Assc. Art Director >>>> -Creative Services >>>> -Epsen Hillmer Graphics >>>> >>>> -402.342.1169 X297------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
Dan Strong
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