Re: Hosts who have upgraded to v5.0?
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2003
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 49059
interpreted = N
texte = I've looked for this before couldn't find one; but does SM have a matrix comparing the features of the different versions of WebDNA?[example]http://www.dantz.com/products/maccompare.htmlhttp://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/productinfo/ features_by_edition/#300[/example]andyOn Monday, Mar 31, 2003, at 15:24 America/Havana, Phillip Bonesteele wrote:>> Marc,>> Could you please be more specific as I'm not clear on what you mean by> dropping products or repackaging the same product. Before we started> thinking about 5.0 well over a year ago, you could purchase two > products ...> Typhoon Pro, and WebCatalog. Those two 'packages' still exist in > pretty> much the identical form as Partner Edition and Commerce Edition. You> purchased WebCatalog ... which is called Commerce Edition today, but > today> with 5.0 has several new features at the same price point. All the > other> editions are new packages for new functionality.>> This is what we've changed in the past year with the introduction of > 4.5 and> now 5.0:>> - Developer Edition: new product package, now free, all features > enabled> with the limitation on threads so you can freely develop against any > WebDNA> product feature or language element, but need to move up the food > chain to> one of the production licenses if you want to host high volume sites.>> - BMT (Before My Time), there was a 'Typhoon' product at $99 that was> non-commerce (no commerce tags) and limited to one database. This was > no> longer available when I became a SMSI employee, so is the only case of > a> 'dropped' product that I'm aware of ... and that's been a couple years > ago.> Given the choice of a one-database, non-commerce product at $99, and a> complete functionality, unlimited database, three-thread product for > free> (Developer Edition), I'd think many people would find Developer more > useful.>> - Typhoon Pro = Partner Edition: lower price, now without thread > limits in> 5.0, and contains new 5.0 features.>> - WebCatalog = Commerce Edition: lowered the price from $2,995 to > $1,995 for> unlimited domains earlier last year, with 5.0 now has more features.> Additionally, available at an entry point of $995 if you don't need> unlimited domains.>> As for your argument that it's the same software in new box ... > there is> significant quantitative evidence that we did in fact add a lot of new> functionality to the product. You can download the free Developer > Edition> 5.0 and try out everything except the Intranet and Content Management> templates. The Intranet can be seen via the test site posted on the > DRC.> I'm looking at how we could post a publicly available site for Content> Management (perhaps as a repository on the DRC for free sample code > that> registered users could modify and post check-ins of their > modifications?).>> At every software company I've ever worked at or known of for the past> twenty years, the only way you could get perpetual new functionality> upgrades for 'free' is if you paid a recurring annual maintenance> subscription, which we do not do. I don't know why, but I wasn't able > to> convince Microsoft to give me that Windows XP upgrade for free. Come > to> think of it, I also had to pay for that new version of Quicken, even > though> I was a loyal customer for years. Of course, I could have just > decided that> I didn't need the new features in the new version of Quicken and > stayed with> the older version ... maybe I should send some flame mail to Intuit > and see> if they'll just give me that new version for free.>> The bottom line is every software company, ourselves included, spend > money,> and lots of it, to support products and to develop new features. The > only> way that can continue is if the result of that investment some how > generates> revenue to support that effort. If you went out and bought a Honda > Accord> five years ago, then drove it for 120K miles, having owned that car > for five> years doesn't somehow include the right to get a 2003 Honda Accord at > no> cost. Does the 2003 Accord have a lot of similarities to your 1998 > model?> Sure, it has four wheels, AC, airbags, stereo, etc. ... but the new > one also> has new features that the old one doesn't. Is it fair to accuse Honda > of> simply re-branding the old 1998 Accord as a 2003 and selling you the > same> old product under a new name simply because you don't understand the > value> in any of the new features? I'd think not. You can CHOOSE to simply > keep> driving that 1998 Accord.>> Phil B.>> -----Original Message-----> From: marc@kaiwi.com [mailto:marc@kaiwi.com]> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:10 AM> To: WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com> Subject: Re: Hosts who have upgraded to v5.0?>> I have to add to this. I agree, and I'm very upset about it.>> The fact is that SmithMicro has priced me right out of their product> and I'm mad about it. I purchased WebCatalog (several licenses in fact)> at a premium price under the assumption that it was a good product and> one that I would continue to develop, promote and upgrade.>> Unfortunately SmithMicro is in fact dropping the products I purchased,> repackaging the same product and trying to sell it back to me again at> a premium price as if it were some kind of new program all together.> Some might argue that it is indeed a new product but when I look at,> It's the same software in a new box.>> I couldn't begin to suggest or talk about marketing strategy because I> don't know anything about it. All I see as an end user of this product> is that, as it turns out it would seem that it was a bad choice on my> part to invest the time and money in SmithMicro's product in the first> place only to have them price me right out of the market.>> I won't make the same mistake again with SM. I may have to discontinue> any further WebDNA upgrades but that won't stop me from developing new> software with what ever tools are available to me and the fact is I> don't really care who's name is on the tool box i use but unfortunately> it doesn't look like it's going to be SmithMicro.>> SIDE BAR: The whole issue of the new product marketing and pricing has> been a joke from the beginning. I've read (on this list) many hundreds> if not thousands of words from SM's crack sales team packed full of all> kinds of dynamic sounding techno sales jargon and it still took> hundreds of emails back and forth from SM and folks on this list to> figure out how much the thing would cost!! Come on! Sheeshhh.>> : c)>> Thanks,>> MK>>>>> On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 09:06 AM, Claude Gelinas wrote:>>> Hi Kenneth,>>>> It's a very expensive upgrade and it's nowhere close to my available>> budget for such an upgrade. I'd go as far as 500$US for a fully>> unlimited license. That's the absolute max.>>>> Unfortunately, the folks at SmithMicro seem to think we're rich, or>> something. They fail to see PHP's rock solid capabilities and free>> license (which makes a world of a difference since).>>>> Since a lot of the action on the list seems like it's slowing down, I>> take it that perhaps a majority of WebDNA users are already toying>> aroung with the thousands of PHP scripts freely available at>> http://hotscripts.com/ to convert everything they built with WebDNA in>> the past in order to have 100% PHP operations in the future.>>>> It's sad but SmithMicro can't understand the logic of small web shops>> like mine. They seem to think we're very rich and the only way out for>> us is to pay their insanely high prices and unattractive conditions>> (the domain limitation, namely).>>>> An alternative talk of this matter is going on at>> http://webmaster.mbnx.net/ but my biggest wish would be that>> SmithMicro woke up and got a brutal reality check: we're NOT rich! We>> love the language but raising the bar for us all will just kill the>> language by pushing everyone to something they can afford, such as > >> PHP.>>>> God, I really hope they wake up!>>>> Here's a bit of advice: being generous will make you insanely rich. Be>> a grinch and you'll choke under your own paranoia that you're it.>> SmithMicro: please get a brain. Your sky-high prices are killing any>> chance for the language to seriously take off in the market. It>> doesn't take a genie to figure that one out but obviously, SmithMicro>> still isn't figuring it out...>>>> I wouldn't say all this if I wasn't madly in love in your language.>> I'm doing it because I care.>>>> Respectfully yours,>> Signed: Marc Kaiwi-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list
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Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
I've looked for this before couldn't find one; but does SM have a matrix comparing the features of the different versions of WebDNA?[example]http://www.dantz.com/products/maccompare.htmlhttp://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/productinfo/ features_by_edition/#300[/example]andyOn Monday, Mar 31, 2003, at 15:24 America/Havana, Phillip Bonesteele wrote:>> Marc,>> Could you please be more specific as I'm not clear on what you mean by> dropping products or repackaging the same product. Before we started> thinking about 5.0 well over a year ago, you could purchase two > products ...> Typhoon Pro, and WebCatalog. Those two 'packages' still exist in > pretty> much the identical form as Partner Edition and Commerce Edition. You> purchased WebCatalog ... which is called Commerce Edition today, but > today> with 5.0 has several new features at the same price point. All the > other> editions are new packages for new functionality.>> This is what we've changed in the past year with the introduction of > 4.5 and> now 5.0:>> - Developer Edition: new product package, now free, all features > enabled> with the limitation on threads so you can freely develop against any > WebDNA> product feature or language element, but need to move up the food > chain to> one of the production licenses if you want to host high volume sites.>> - BMT (Before My Time), there was a 'Typhoon' product at $99 that was> non-commerce (no commerce tags) and limited to one database. This was > no> longer available when I became a SMSI employee, so is the only case of > a> 'dropped' product that I'm aware of ... and that's been a couple years > ago.> Given the choice of a one-database, non-commerce product at $99, and a> complete functionality, unlimited database, three-thread product for > free> (Developer Edition), I'd think many people would find Developer more > useful.>> - Typhoon Pro = Partner Edition: lower price, now without thread > limits in> 5.0, and contains new 5.0 features.>> - WebCatalog = Commerce Edition: lowered the price from $2,995 to > $1,995 for> unlimited domains earlier last year, with 5.0 now has more features.> Additionally, available at an entry point of $995 if you don't need> unlimited domains.>> As for your argument that it's the same software in new box ... > there is> significant quantitative evidence that we did in fact add a lot of new> functionality to the product. You can download the free Developer > Edition> 5.0 and try out everything except the Intranet and Content Management> templates. The Intranet can be seen via the test site posted on the > DRC.> I'm looking at how we could post a publicly available site for Content> Management (perhaps as a repository on the DRC for free sample code > that> registered users could modify and post check-ins of their > modifications?).>> At every software company I've ever worked at or known of for the past> twenty years, the only way you could get perpetual new functionality> upgrades for 'free' is if you paid a recurring annual maintenance> subscription, which we do not do. I don't know why, but I wasn't able > to> convince Microsoft to give me that Windows XP upgrade for free. Come > to> think of it, I also had to pay for that new version of Quicken, even > though> I was a loyal customer for years. Of course, I could have just > decided that> I didn't need the new features in the new version of Quicken and > stayed with> the older version ... maybe I should send some flame mail to Intuit > and see> if they'll just give me that new version for free.>> The bottom line is every software company, ourselves included, spend > money,> and lots of it, to support products and to develop new features. The > only> way that can continue is if the result of that investment some how > generates> revenue to support that effort. If you went out and bought a Honda > Accord> five years ago, then drove it for 120K miles, having owned that car > for five> years doesn't somehow include the right to get a 2003 Honda Accord at > no> cost. Does the 2003 Accord have a lot of similarities to your 1998 > model?> Sure, it has four wheels, AC, airbags, stereo, etc. ... but the new > one also> has new features that the old one doesn't. Is it fair to accuse Honda > of> simply re-branding the old 1998 Accord as a 2003 and selling you the > same> old product under a new name simply because you don't understand the > value> in any of the new features? I'd think not. You can CHOOSE to simply > keep> driving that 1998 Accord.>> Phil B.>> -----Original Message-----> From: marc@kaiwi.com [mailto:marc@kaiwi.com]> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:10 AM> To: WebDNA-Talk@talk.smithmicro.com> Subject: Re: Hosts who have upgraded to v5.0?>> I have to add to this. I agree, and I'm very upset about it.>> The fact is that SmithMicro has priced me right out of their product> and I'm mad about it. I purchased WebCatalog (several licenses in fact)> at a premium price under the assumption that it was a good product and> one that I would continue to develop, promote and upgrade.>> Unfortunately SmithMicro is in fact dropping the products I purchased,> repackaging the same product and trying to sell it back to me again at> a premium price as if it were some kind of new program all together.> Some might argue that it is indeed a new product but when I look at,> It's the same software in a new box.>> I couldn't begin to suggest or talk about marketing strategy because I> don't know anything about it. All I see as an end user of this product> is that, as it turns out it would seem that it was a bad choice on my> part to invest the time and money in SmithMicro's product in the first> place only to have them price me right out of the market.>> I won't make the same mistake again with SM. I may have to discontinue> any further WebDNA upgrades but that won't stop me from developing new> software with what ever tools are available to me and the fact is I> don't really care who's name is on the tool box i use but unfortunately> it doesn't look like it's going to be SmithMicro.>> SIDE BAR: The whole issue of the new product marketing and pricing has> been a joke from the beginning. I've read (on this list) many hundreds> if not thousands of words from SM's crack sales team packed full of all> kinds of dynamic sounding techno sales jargon and it still took> hundreds of emails back and forth from SM and folks on this list to> figure out how much the thing would cost!! Come on! Sheeshhh.>> : c)>> Thanks,>> MK>>>>> On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 09:06 AM, Claude Gelinas wrote:>>> Hi Kenneth,>>>> It's a very expensive upgrade and it's nowhere close to my available>> budget for such an upgrade. I'd go as far as 500$US for a fully>> unlimited license. That's the absolute max.>>>> Unfortunately, the folks at SmithMicro seem to think we're rich, or>> something. They fail to see PHP's rock solid capabilities and free>> license (which makes a world of a difference since).>>>> Since a lot of the action on the list seems like it's slowing down, I>> take it that perhaps a majority of WebDNA users are already toying>> aroung with the thousands of PHP scripts freely available at>> http://hotscripts.com/ to convert everything they built with WebDNA in>> the past in order to have 100% PHP operations in the future.>>>> It's sad but SmithMicro can't understand the logic of small web shops>> like mine. They seem to think we're very rich and the only way out for>> us is to pay their insanely high prices and unattractive conditions>> (the domain limitation, namely).>>>> An alternative talk of this matter is going on at>> http://webmaster.mbnx.net/ but my biggest wish would be that>> SmithMicro woke up and got a brutal reality check: we're NOT rich! We>> love the language but raising the bar for us all will just kill the>> language by pushing everyone to something they can afford, such as > >> PHP.>>>> God, I really hope they wake up!>>>> Here's a bit of advice: being generous will make you insanely rich. Be>> a grinch and you'll choke under your own paranoia that you're it.>> SmithMicro: please get a brain. Your sky-high prices are killing any>> chance for the language to seriously take off in the market. It>> doesn't take a genie to figure that one out but obviously, SmithMicro>> still isn't figuring it out...>>>> I wouldn't say all this if I wasn't madly in love in your language.>> I'm doing it because I care.>>>> Respectfully yours,>> Signed: Marc Kaiwi-------------------------------------------------------------This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list .To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
andy mowrey
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