Re: Hosts who have upgraded to v5.0?
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2003
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 49082
interpreted = N
texte = Mark,Somehow others seem to have gone from 3.x to 4.x for $500.00 - wonder how SMSI got me for $1995.00 for the same upgrade. I feel I have already paid for the 5.x upgrade but when bring this up, Doug sends me a private email accusing me of harassing him on the list, when I ask a pricing question in response to his email, I get kicked off the lists and philip then makes his accusations. All philip would have to do if he had a clue was to check the subscriber list and based on how often they clean up their list it would show that I had re-subscribed as the admin screen in CGatePro shows the signup time and date.But instead he prefers to accuse me of something else.Instead of figuring out what customer service means they instead make false accusations against their PAYING customers. So I am asking here publically since SMSI doesn't want to deal with this privately, when do I get 5.0 serial numbers since I seem to have paid 4 x what everyone else was required to pay for the 3.x to 4.x upgrade?And yes, this was to SMSI, not to PAcific Coast, so you can't use that line. And before you cal me a liar, I suggest you check your own records. And I do own more than 1 license so there is a $500.00 upgrade there as well, but also notice the $1995.00 one. The so-called pre-release special.Dale On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 12:29 AM, Marc Kaiwi wrote:> Hi Phillip, > > Look, all I'm saying is that I'm upset that I'm getting priced out of > a software product I like. The upgrade to 5.0 is over priced. I paid > the $2,000 price tag for the product and I won't pay $1,000 or 1,200 > (or what ever it is) to upgrade. That's ridiculous, as is your attempt > to liken this situation to buying a new car. > > Sure you've developed this great new entry point price and I wish I > had started there but I didn't. I'm invested already. The unlimited > domain upgrade is much too expensive and asking me to upgrade to a > limited edition version of the same software I purchased at full price > is in fact a downgrade! Don't you people get it? > > Some of the folks on this list with the corporate budget to play > with aren't going to care what it costs for anything ... It's only > going to hurt the independent developers who have already invested in > the product. Your are giving new customers a great deal while screwing > the long time WebDNA followers that have been carrying this product > around for a long time now. > > WebDNA is too useful a development tool to become elitist about it. > I'd bet that most of its users are small operations on a tight budget, > and they are only going to grow in number. If you think that WebDNA is > or should be compared to Quicken or Windows XP as you mentioned below, > think again. Quicken sells for 50 bucks, an XP upgrade can be had for > $99. Different product, different market/share, please don't try to > compare it to something it's not. > > I realize that you have development costs but it's a big mistake to > try and support this product/project on the backs of a small group of > developers. The fact is you need volume and it's not going to come > from over pricing your product. > > BOTTOM LINE: The upgrade cost is too high! In effect you have priced > me out of your product. > > I totally accept what you are doing and you totally have the right to > structure your upgrade/product pricing in anyway you feel is best. I > just want to express the fact that I'm upset about it ... that's all. > No hard feelings. > > Thanks, > > > On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 12:24 PM, Phillip Bonesteele wrote: > >> >> Marc, >> >> Could you please be more specific as I'm not clear on what you mean by >> dropping products or repackaging the same product. Before we started >> thinking about 5.0 well over a year ago, you could purchase two >> products ... >> Typhoon Pro, and WebCatalog. Those two 'packages' still exist in >> pretty >> much the identical form as Partner Edition and Commerce Edition. You >> purchased WebCatalog ... which is called Commerce Edition today, but >> today >> with 5.0 has several new features at the same price point. All the >> other >> editions are new packages for new functionality. >> >> This is what we've changed in the past year with the introduction of >> 4.5 and >> now 5.0: >> >> - Developer Edition: new product package, now free, all features >> enabled >> with the limitation on threads so you can freely develop against any >> WebDNA >> product feature or language element, but need to move up the food >> chain to >> one of the production licenses if you want to host high volume sites. >> >> - BMT (Before My Time), there was a 'Typhoon' product at $99 that was >> non-commerce (no commerce tags) and limited to one database. This >> was no >> longer available when I became a SMSI employee, so is the only case >> of a >> 'dropped' product that I'm aware of ... and that's been a couple >> years ago. >> Given the choice of a one-database, non-commerce product at $99, and a >> complete functionality, unlimited database, three-thread product for >> free >> (Developer Edition), I'd think many people would find Developer more >> useful. >> >> - Typhoon Pro = Partner Edition: lower price, now without thread >> limits in >> 5.0, and contains new 5.0 features. >> >> - WebCatalog = Commerce Edition: lowered the price from $2,995 to >> $1,995 for >> unlimited domains earlier last year, with 5.0 now has more features. >> Additionally, available at an entry point of $995 if you don't need >> unlimited domains. >> >> As for your argument that it's the same software in new box ... >> there is >> significant quantitative evidence that we did in fact add a lot of new >> functionality to the product. You can download the free Developer >> Edition >> 5.0 and try out everything except the Intranet and Content Management >> templates. The Intranet can be seen via the test site posted on the >> DRC. >> I'm looking at how we could post a publicly available site for Content >> Management (perhaps as a repository on the DRC for free sample code >> that >> registered users could modify and post check-ins of their >> modifications?). >> >> At every software company I've ever worked at or known of for the past >> twenty years, the only way you could get perpetual new functionality >> upgrades for 'free' is if you paid a recurring annual maintenance >> subscription, which we do not do. I don't know why, but I wasn't >> able to >> convince Microsoft to give me that Windows XP upgrade for free. Come >> to >> think of it, I also had to pay for that new version of Quicken, even >> though >> I was a loyal customer for years. Of course, I could have just >> decided that >> I didn't need the new features in the new version of Quicken and >> stayed with >> the older version ... maybe I should send some flame mail to Intuit >> and see >> if they'll just give me that new version for free. >> >> The bottom line is every software company, ourselves included, spend >> money, >> and lots of it, to support products and to develop new features. The >> only >> way that can continue is if the result of that investment some how >> generates >> revenue to support that effort. If you went out and bought a Honda >> Accord >> five years ago, then drove it for 120K miles, having owned that car >> for five >> years doesn't somehow include the right to get a 2003 Honda Accord at >> no >> cost. Does the 2003 Accord have a lot of similarities to your 1998 >> model? >> Sure, it has four wheels, AC, airbags, stereo, etc. ... but the new >> one also >> has new features that the old one doesn't. Is it fair to accuse >> Honda of >> simply re-branding the old 1998 Accord as a 2003 and selling you the >> same >> old product under a new name simply because you don't understand the >> value >> in any of the new features? I'd think not. You can CHOOSE to simply >> keep >> driving that 1998 Accord. >> >> Phil B. > > Signed: Marc Kaiwi > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list
. > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to > > Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
Mark,Somehow others seem to have gone from 3.x to 4.x for $500.00 - wonder how SMSI got me for $1995.00 for the same upgrade. I feel I have already paid for the 5.x upgrade but when bring this up, Doug sends me a private email accusing me of harassing him on the list, when I ask a pricing question in response to his email, I get kicked off the lists and philip then makes his accusations. All philip would have to do if he had a clue was to check the subscriber list and based on how often they clean up their list it would show that I had re-subscribed as the admin screen in CGatePro shows the signup time and date.But instead he prefers to accuse me of something else.Instead of figuring out what customer service means they instead make false accusations against their PAYING customers. So I am asking here publically since SMSI doesn't want to deal with this privately, when do I get 5.0 serial numbers since I seem to have paid 4 x what everyone else was required to pay for the 3.x to 4.x upgrade?And yes, this was to SMSI, not to PAcific Coast, so you can't use that line. And before you cal me a liar, I suggest you check your own records. And I do own more than 1 license so there is a $500.00 upgrade there as well, but also notice the $1995.00 one. The so-called pre-release special.Dale On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 12:29 AM, Marc Kaiwi wrote:> Hi Phillip, > > Look, all I'm saying is that I'm upset that I'm getting priced out of > a software product I like. The upgrade to 5.0 is over priced. I paid > the $2,000 price tag for the product and I won't pay $1,000 or 1,200 > (or what ever it is) to upgrade. That's ridiculous, as is your attempt > to liken this situation to buying a new car. > > Sure you've developed this great new entry point price and I wish I > had started there but I didn't. I'm invested already. The unlimited > domain upgrade is much too expensive and asking me to upgrade to a > limited edition version of the same software I purchased at full price > is in fact a downgrade! Don't you people get it? > > Some of the folks on this list with the corporate budget to play > with aren't going to care what it costs for anything ... It's only > going to hurt the independent developers who have already invested in > the product. Your are giving new customers a great deal while screwing > the long time WebDNA followers that have been carrying this product > around for a long time now. > > WebDNA is too useful a development tool to become elitist about it. > I'd bet that most of its users are small operations on a tight budget, > and they are only going to grow in number. If you think that WebDNA is > or should be compared to Quicken or Windows XP as you mentioned below, > think again. Quicken sells for 50 bucks, an XP upgrade can be had for > $99. Different product, different market/share, please don't try to > compare it to something it's not. > > I realize that you have development costs but it's a big mistake to > try and support this product/project on the backs of a small group of > developers. The fact is you need volume and it's not going to come > from over pricing your product. > > BOTTOM LINE: The upgrade cost is too high! In effect you have priced > me out of your product. > > I totally accept what you are doing and you totally have the right to > structure your upgrade/product pricing in anyway you feel is best. I > just want to express the fact that I'm upset about it ... that's all. > No hard feelings. > > Thanks, > > > On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 12:24 PM, Phillip Bonesteele wrote: > >> >> Marc, >> >> Could you please be more specific as I'm not clear on what you mean by >> dropping products or repackaging the same product. Before we started >> thinking about 5.0 well over a year ago, you could purchase two >> products ... >> Typhoon Pro, and WebCatalog. Those two 'packages' still exist in >> pretty >> much the identical form as Partner Edition and Commerce Edition. You >> purchased WebCatalog ... which is called Commerce Edition today, but >> today >> with 5.0 has several new features at the same price point. All the >> other >> editions are new packages for new functionality. >> >> This is what we've changed in the past year with the introduction of >> 4.5 and >> now 5.0: >> >> - Developer Edition: new product package, now free, all features >> enabled >> with the limitation on threads so you can freely develop against any >> WebDNA >> product feature or language element, but need to move up the food >> chain to >> one of the production licenses if you want to host high volume sites. >> >> - BMT (Before My Time), there was a 'Typhoon' product at $99 that was >> non-commerce (no commerce tags) and limited to one database. This >> was no >> longer available when I became a SMSI employee, so is the only case >> of a >> 'dropped' product that I'm aware of ... and that's been a couple >> years ago. >> Given the choice of a one-database, non-commerce product at $99, and a >> complete functionality, unlimited database, three-thread product for >> free >> (Developer Edition), I'd think many people would find Developer more >> useful. >> >> - Typhoon Pro = Partner Edition: lower price, now without thread >> limits in >> 5.0, and contains new 5.0 features. >> >> - WebCatalog = Commerce Edition: lowered the price from $2,995 to >> $1,995 for >> unlimited domains earlier last year, with 5.0 now has more features. >> Additionally, available at an entry point of $995 if you don't need >> unlimited domains. >> >> As for your argument that it's the same software in new box ... >> there is >> significant quantitative evidence that we did in fact add a lot of new >> functionality to the product. You can download the free Developer >> Edition >> 5.0 and try out everything except the Intranet and Content Management >> templates. The Intranet can be seen via the test site posted on the >> DRC. >> I'm looking at how we could post a publicly available site for Content >> Management (perhaps as a repository on the DRC for free sample code >> that >> registered users could modify and post check-ins of their >> modifications?). >> >> At every software company I've ever worked at or known of for the past >> twenty years, the only way you could get perpetual new functionality >> upgrades for 'free' is if you paid a recurring annual maintenance >> subscription, which we do not do. I don't know why, but I wasn't >> able to >> convince Microsoft to give me that Windows XP upgrade for free. Come >> to >> think of it, I also had to pay for that new version of Quicken, even >> though >> I was a loyal customer for years. Of course, I could have just >> decided that >> I didn't need the new features in the new version of Quicken and >> stayed with >> the older version ... maybe I should send some flame mail to Intuit >> and see >> if they'll just give me that new version for free. >> >> The bottom line is every software company, ourselves included, spend >> money, >> and lots of it, to support products and to develop new features. The >> only >> way that can continue is if the result of that investment some how >> generates >> revenue to support that effort. If you went out and bought a Honda >> Accord >> five years ago, then drove it for 120K miles, having owned that car >> for five >> years doesn't somehow include the right to get a 2003 Honda Accord at >> no >> cost. Does the 2003 Accord have a lot of similarities to your 1998 >> model? >> Sure, it has four wheels, AC, airbags, stereo, etc. ... but the new >> one also >> has new features that the old one doesn't. Is it fair to accuse >> Honda of >> simply re-branding the old 1998 Accord as a 2003 and selling you the >> same >> old product under a new name simply because you don't understand the >> value >> in any of the new features? I'd think not. You can CHOOSE to simply >> keep >> driving that 1998 Accord. >> >> Phil B. > > Signed: Marc Kaiwi > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to > > Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
Dale's Stuff
DOWNLOAD WEBDNA NOW!
Top Articles:
Talk List
The WebDNA community talk-list is the best place to get some help: several hundred extremely proficient programmers with an excellent knowledge of WebDNA and an excellent spirit will deliver all the tips and tricks you can imagine...
Related Readings:
upgrading (1997)
Part Html part WebDNA (1997)
Webcat engine freezes when [tcpconnect] can't connect (2003)
View order not right (1997)
Two prices in shoppingcart? (1997)
WebCat2b14MacPlugIn - [include] doesn't hide the search string (1997)
Weird Math and SV Bad News (1997)
Help with getting rpm file (2002)
WebDNA hosting? ... (2004)
Re:E-mailer application times out (1998)
AutoCommit Preference? (1998)
Showing specific [cart] contents (1998)
WebCat2 several catalogs? (1997)
Thanks Grant (1997)
Emailer (1997)
Only charge card when product shipped ? (1997)
Bulk Email Limits (2001)
List Server (1999)
Newbie questions (1999)
FEW QUESTIONS (1997)