Re: WebDNA for Dummies
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2004
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 56607
interpreted = N
texte = What I expect from SM at this point is at least the infrastructure so that everyone can easily contribute to a knowledge base. This means a decent forum/code contribution solution. Beginner tutorials would be a plus. The point would be to let those who need to know more about WebDNA get some insight into its workings and benefits and let those who are most expert or experienced guide the way. We help each other by sharing this wisdom and we help generate more of a market for our code. A lot of people have asked the "How do I sell WebDNA question". A super online resource answers a lot of that question. For example, if I want to customize the reference documents with examples I can. If I want to add a thread on setting up email to use HTML and/or attachments, I can. If we're collecting snippets on various payment providers, here you go. That's the idea. If we get a bunch of off topic or erroneous posts, poof -- they are moderated by SM or one or more longstanding members of the Talk List. Where do I do this now? Subscribe to the Talk List, get some great posts and some off-topic ones and lots of questions that are getting routine. I think search the archive is not working because information is buried in there. Let's dust it off and organize it a little bit. Hell, SM could even pay Ken to get it started! If SM wants to see the result of the tools I'm looking for visit sourceforge, webmasterworld and the PHP online docs. Those are best of breed solutions because they are shaped by community efforts on a great infrastructure. To paraphrase a baseball movie, build this and they will come. Without it you're just another scripting language that didn't harness the power of its userbase. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Dylan Wood
Sent: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:03:33 -0500 To: (WebDNA Talk) Subject: Re: WebDNA for Dummies I'm inclined to agree with you for the most part Glen. I mean actions speak louder than words, right? Anyway, given that, i would just like to add another pie in the sky idea.... We need better support from SMSI. If we had some support from SMSI on some of the ideas that come across this list I think you'd see more action on the part of a volunteer. IE, how many times have we told SMSI we wanted to have conferences, we even told them how to do it in a cost conscious manner. We are ALWAYS asking for documentation, projects, and books like this. If SMSI hired a bunch of interns, had them scour this list for good content and break those things up into sections which could then be utilized by a writer/editor, they would only need to hire someone as a freelancer to compose something like what everyone wants. They have the DRC which is mostly an empty shell. They can't expect us(webDNA customers) or outside public to participate in the DRC unless it has some sort of critical mass. If there is enough stuff, in one place, organized well, you'd see people participate. This place was supposed to be the DRC from what I know, currently there is nobody at SMSI constantly adding things to it. SMSI should be adding 2-3 new posts a day, 20-30 a week. FYI to SMSI, the worst thing you can do is respond to the above statement with an excuse like"hey, we built the DRC for you guys" That would be like saying, 'here's and empty dinner plate, enjoy your meal!" On Mar 5, 2004, at 12:27 AM, Kenneth Grome wrote: >> Relax, I'm sure you won't have to contribute a moment of thought to >> any effort you feel unworthy. >> >> Thank you for your kind contribution and encouraging input. > > > Mark, I see this same kind of "pie in the sky" dream talk every few > months on this list. The last time it was about developing a database > tool called "digger" which failed of course, just like all the other > dreams about a successful volunteer effort to make better resources > for the webdna community. > > Maybe it's time for everyone to wake up and realize that nothing is > ever going to be finished or maintained (and both are necessary) > unless someone does it as a PAID JOB. And that brings up the question > of who is going to pay for it? Certainly not SMSI from what I have > seen. > > Everyone has all these great ideas but no one actually starts and > actually finishes the work. Some of you start, but as soon as you get > a paid programming job (or some other real job) you drop your efforts > to finish what you started for the webdna community, then it becomes > just one more failed effort that we can all look back on and say "Gee, > if only he had finished it ..." > > :( > > Volunteer efforts will never work in this too-small community of > webdna programmers, that's my personal belief. Sorry if this hurts > people's feelings but that's just what I believe, based on everything > I have seen during the past 8 years. Therefore, until at least ONE of > these efforts is completed and functional, I will continue to believe > it. > > You all can keep dreaming of a successful volunteer effort if you > want, but those of you who sit there and post all these great ideas > might want to think about actually WORKING on just one of them for a > few hours every day, without any excuses about having other more > important things to do with your free time ... and then we will see > just how long you actually contribute a couple hours each day before > deciding that it's just not worth it to you personally. I can > guarantee you that something will happen to draw your attention away > from this effort, and you will never go back and finish it. > > By the way Mark, I have previously contributed a minimum of 2-3 hours > a day (sometimes twice that much) virtually every day for the first > two or three years this talk list existed, in an effort to find and > post the proper answer to every question someone posted to the list. > This was all totally free support from me to anyone and everyone who > asked a question on the list during that period of time. To me this > seems like a substantial contribution to the effort to improve webdna > resources, and as such I feel that I have done more than my share. > > So even though you don't like the fact that I said "it all depends > upon your perspective" whether or not an effort like this is > worthwhile, I in fact *do* believe it is worthwhile. My contribution > of thousands of hours of tech support on the list is still available > to anyone who cares to use it. > > And for those of you who have yet to do anything but suggest ideas, I > think it's time that you sit down and do something USEFUL on one of > these "webdna dream projects" instead of just talking about how great > it would be if "we" or if "someone" (read SOMEONE ELSE) puts it all > together ... > > Everyone has great ideas, and great excuses for not doing it > themselves. > > -- > > Kenneth Grome > WebDNA Programmer > Outsource Service Provider > Phone: +6332 255-6591 > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to > > Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
What I expect from SM at this point is at least the infrastructure so that everyone can easily contribute to a knowledge base. This means a decent forum/code contribution solution. Beginner tutorials would be a plus. The point would be to let those who need to know more about WebDNA get some insight into its workings and benefits and let those who are most expert or experienced guide the way. We help each other by sharing this wisdom and we help generate more of a market for our code. A lot of people have asked the "How do I sell WebDNA question". A super online resource answers a lot of that question. For example, if I want to customize the reference documents with examples I can. If I want to add a thread on setting up email to use HTML and/or attachments, I can. If we're collecting snippets on various payment providers, here you go. That's the idea. If we get a bunch of off topic or erroneous posts, poof -- they are moderated by SM or one or more longstanding members of the Talk List. Where do I do this now? Subscribe to the Talk List, get some great posts and some off-topic ones and lots of questions that are getting routine. I think search the archive is not working because information is buried in there. Let's dust it off and organize it a little bit. Hell, SM could even pay Ken to get it started! If SM wants to see the result of the tools I'm looking for visit sourceforge, webmasterworld and the PHP online docs. Those are best of breed solutions because they are shaped by community efforts on a great infrastructure. To paraphrase a baseball movie, build this and they will come. Without it you're just another scripting language that didn't harness the power of its userbase. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Dylan Wood Sent: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:03:33 -0500 To: (WebDNA Talk) Subject: Re: WebDNA for Dummies I'm inclined to agree with you for the most part Glen. I mean actions speak louder than words, right? Anyway, given that, i would just like to add another pie in the sky idea.... We need better support from SMSI. If we had some support from SMSI on some of the ideas that come across this list I think you'd see more action on the part of a volunteer. IE, how many times have we told SMSI we wanted to have conferences, we even told them how to do it in a cost conscious manner. We are ALWAYS asking for documentation, projects, and books like this. If SMSI hired a bunch of interns, had them scour this list for good content and break those things up into sections which could then be utilized by a writer/editor, they would only need to hire someone as a freelancer to compose something like what everyone wants. They have the DRC which is mostly an empty shell. They can't expect us(webDNA customers) or outside public to participate in the DRC unless it has some sort of critical mass. If there is enough stuff, in one place, organized well, you'd see people participate. This place was supposed to be the DRC from what I know, currently there is nobody at SMSI constantly adding things to it. SMSI should be adding 2-3 new posts a day, 20-30 a week. FYI to SMSI, the worst thing you can do is respond to the above statement with an excuse like"hey, we built the DRC for you guys" That would be like saying, 'here's and empty dinner plate, enjoy your meal!" On Mar 5, 2004, at 12:27 AM, Kenneth Grome wrote: >> Relax, I'm sure you won't have to contribute a moment of thought to >> any effort you feel unworthy. >> >> Thank you for your kind contribution and encouraging input. > > > Mark, I see this same kind of "pie in the sky" dream talk every few > months on this list. The last time it was about developing a database > tool called "digger" which failed of course, just like all the other > dreams about a successful volunteer effort to make better resources > for the webdna community. > > Maybe it's time for everyone to wake up and realize that nothing is > ever going to be finished or maintained (and both are necessary) > unless someone does it as a PAID JOB. And that brings up the question > of who is going to pay for it? Certainly not SMSI from what I have > seen. > > Everyone has all these great ideas but no one actually starts and > actually finishes the work. Some of you start, but as soon as you get > a paid programming job (or some other real job) you drop your efforts > to finish what you started for the webdna community, then it becomes > just one more failed effort that we can all look back on and say "Gee, > if only he had finished it ..." > > :( > > Volunteer efforts will never work in this too-small community of > webdna programmers, that's my personal belief. Sorry if this hurts > people's feelings but that's just what I believe, based on everything > I have seen during the past 8 years. Therefore, until at least ONE of > these efforts is completed and functional, I will continue to believe > it. > > You all can keep dreaming of a successful volunteer effort if you > want, but those of you who sit there and post all these great ideas > might want to think about actually WORKING on just one of them for a > few hours every day, without any excuses about having other more > important things to do with your free time ... and then we will see > just how long you actually contribute a couple hours each day before > deciding that it's just not worth it to you personally. I can > guarantee you that something will happen to draw your attention away > from this effort, and you will never go back and finish it. > > By the way Mark, I have previously contributed a minimum of 2-3 hours > a day (sometimes twice that much) virtually every day for the first > two or three years this Talk List existed, in an effort to find and > post the proper answer to every question someone posted to the list. > This was all totally free support from me to anyone and everyone who > asked a question on the list during that period of time. To me this > seems like a substantial contribution to the effort to improve webdna > resources, and as such I feel that I have done more than my share. > > So even though you don't like the fact that I said "it all depends > upon your perspective" whether or not an effort like this is > worthwhile, I in fact *do* believe it is worthwhile. My contribution > of thousands of hours of tech support on the list is still available > to anyone who cares to use it. > > And for those of you who have yet to do anything but suggest ideas, I > think it's time that you sit down and do something USEFUL on one of > these "webdna dream projects" instead of just talking about how great > it would be if "we" or if "someone" (read SOMEONE ELSE) puts it all > together ... > > Everyone has great ideas, and great excuses for not doing it > themselves. > > -- > > Kenneth Grome > WebDNA Programmer > Outsource Service Provider > Phone: +6332 255-6591 > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to > the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to > > Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to Web Archive of this list is at: http://webdna.smithmicro.com/
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