Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington

This WebDNA talk-list message is from

2019


It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 114856
interpreted = N
texte = 2484 --Apple-Mail-D08B19FB-2505-4005-BC37-8E410E031BFE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Horse water oh well > On Oct 1, 2019, at 06:45, Brian Harrington wrote:= >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Thanks Patrick... I only host my own stuff and it's easy working on websit= es right on the server so u can see instant result of your work. Once my Mac= is setup and it's usually just minutes now it seems to run forever and is v= ery fast and stable. I tried Digital Ocean (DO) and the sites went don't num= erous times for no reason and I was not even doing anything on the droplet a= nd I spent endless hours just trying to figure out where things were on thei= r 2 sites (admin and website) that are so similar I got lost between them ma= ny times... And their forms I have no idea what the input should be and they= offer no examples. I would still need my computer to build sites on and I s= pent a half day just researching and trying things to accomplish that... I s= een and tried examples to modify the temperamental host file that did not wo= rk and I ordered a switch/router through Amazon as I know that worked for me= in the past... my Desktop was a mess working on the DO project... I had the= ir web pages open... their admin... the terminal window... FTP software... t= ext editor... skype and all that just to work remotely via FTP...? I'm fluid= in HTML and WebDna and can figure out what I need done in Javascript and CS= S and that's all you needed in the past. I really need to learn Front-End an= d responsive design and glad u mentioned Wordpress that I could not install a= nyways on my older Mac and now settling in on my newer one could. I'm lookin= g at Material Design for Bootstrap (MDB)...??? >=20 >> On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 5:09 AM Patrick McCormick wrote: >> Hey Brian - that is really weird. I have never tried multiple ethernet c= onnections on the same address because I just assumed that it couldn=E2=80=99= t possibly work that way. >>=20 >> One of the best things about cloud hosting is never ever having to think a= bout that sort of stuff again. Ever. Every diol of hardware is configured r= edundantly. As soon as a data center gets a new server blade installed into= a rack, its components - RAM, CPU, disk, etc., are inventoried and optimall= y distributed to that company=E2=80=99s customers. There is no relationship= between what server specs I buy and any specific machines in the data cente= r. Everything is abstracted so that anything can fail without interrupting a= ny services. It gets pretty confusing but products like vSphere are what dat= a centers use to manage their equipment. That system just tells them how mu= ch additional CPU, RAM & disk they need to keep up with current load and the= y can also buy in bulk from Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc., if they need qui= ck additional capacity while they wait for delivery of physical equipment. >>=20 >> The other thing I learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA developers op= erate at a fraction of the typical website load that other content managemen= t systems typically use. Because WordPress comes with a back end & pre-pack= aged code for themes & plugins, it really =E2=80=9Cshits the bed=E2=80=9D in= terms of cookies, variables, threads, and endless cruft just to be able to k= eep track of everything. PHP settings usually require a minimum of 2500 pag= e variables and timeouts in excess of 180 seconds. WordPress is a resource h= og many thousands of times larger than WebDAN simply because WebDNA is just a= blinking cursor. There is no environment for themes, plugins, and there is= no content management back end at all. You have to build all of that from s= cratch. >>=20 >> I say get rid of any responsibilities you can - especially hosting. If W= ordPress can spin up a presentable website in a few clicks, complete with ba= ck end content management interface and unique theme, then there ought to be= a relatively straight forward way to add WebDNA to that environment so that= we can build any unique functions using WebDNA syntax and have those functi= ons appear wherever needed within WordPress (or, ultimately any other) CMS. >>=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can assign the same IP to 2 different= physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t want my clients websites running on t= op of a mystery, if I can avoid it. In my case, if I felt that anything was= operating slowly, I would just send a tech support ticket saying =E2=80=9Ci= t seems too slow=E2=80=9D and let them figure it out. I=E2=80=99m done decip= hering back end spooky nonsense when there readily available, trained armies= who are far better than me & my Mac. >>=20 >> Dumping responsibility makes a more stable server, and that certainly inc= ludes hosting. A managed server is fully redundant, automatically backed up= and even client billings are fully automatic - to the point where, should a= credit card get declined, the timer to automatically disable hosting goes i= nto effect & that client is notified by email. The less code I write, the l= ess chance for any problems that I might cause. THere=E2=80=99s a huge war c= hest of pre-build & fully tested code available from places like GitHub. Th= ose represent all the people who have encountered and solved the same proble= ms I=E2=80=99ve run into, but they solved it with an entire group of contrib= utors, any one of which are probably smarter than me. Don=E2=80=99t I owe t= he best possible solutions to my clients? Then why would I screw up my respo= nsibility by thinking for a moment that my single mind might hold the best a= nswers? I=E2=80=99m pretty sure those gangs would crush me every time. As a= programmer, I tend to immediately attack every challenge with my own code, b= ut that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic reaction for which my clients and I= will both suffer. The correct response is the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2=80= =99s already done the best job of solving this already?=E2=80=9D And ironica= lly, it=E2=80=99s the same coder=E2=80=99s ego that motivates all those prog= rammers to show off all that great coding ability in places like GitHub. Thi= nk of the man years of proven, tested, free code that=E2=80=99s just sitting= there, free for the taking. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Brian Harrington w= rote: >>>=20 >>> I know none of you care what I have to say and some of my ideas are off t= he wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache or slow internet con= nections. >>>=20 >>> My newer (2009) more powerful Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM ram/ 4 1TB SSD= 's in RAID seemed to have fast speedtest but Apache still took about 30 seco= nds to deliver my web pages >>> and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower was always very q= uick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until suddenly it's connection 40= 0/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and took about 30 seconds or more to d= eliver web pages. I tried every config on my router and network settings and= even tried 2 ethernet connections (different ip's) and still slow page load= s. And just now I accidentally had my two ethernet connections at the same D= HCP 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page loads into less than half... Not sure if= it matters but the remote DNS are reversed on the 2 connections... images a= ttached. >>>=20 >>> It also might create a very little Redundancy if one ethernet port shoul= d fail... attached images.=20 >>>=20 >>> Note: Deleted my Digital Ocean account as page loads the few times my si= tes were working there are about the same as my home connection now and buil= ding site via FTP is a pain and slow... >>>=20 >>>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart Tremain wrote: >>>> Hi Patrick >>>>=20 >>>> Unfortunately you can=E2=80=99t rely on the WebDNA url(s) being current= .. >>>>=20 >>>> We have found recently that there is an Apache config that needs to be p= ut into an override file, none of this is included in the WebDNA Server edit= ion installers. >>>>=20 >>>> If you want to make this happen I would concentrate on the fcgi version= as this is designed to be relevant to the domain root rather than servicing= the entire machine, so in keeping with the cPanel concept. A user would ins= tall WebDNA or PHP (not both), that is where WebDNA needs to go to widen the= use of the language. Getting in peoples faces is the way to go, curious use= rs would then at least look into the language and hopefully give it a go. >>>>=20 >>>> I can=E2=80=99t see why it could not be achieved, but then I have never= done anything more than use cPanel as a user. >>>>=20 >>>> I would really like to see this happen. >>>>=20 >>>> Patrick it may be more appropriate to change this subject to cPanel & W= ebDNA >>>>=20 >>>> Kind regards >>>>=20 >>>> Stuart Tremain >>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McCormick w= rote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Yes, Stuart, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Not only do I have access to the full machine, I have a 24/7 staff tha= t is willing to help with anything I ask them for. They have been outstandi= ng. It might work out great. >>>>>=20 >>>>> I know I would probably have to make some sort of configuration utilit= y for cPanel & make a pretty icon, but cPanle is very well documented and I d= on=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking a cPanel icon to the W= ebDNA config URL(s), once the software is properly installed in whatever ver= sion of unix. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Stuart Tremain wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi Patrick >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The addition of WebDNA into the app library of cPanel would be a grea= t boost for WebDNA.. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Many years ago I shopped around different hosting companies for them t= o make WebDNA available on their cPanel configs - none were willing. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> If you have total access to your machine and are familiar with the OS= on the machine and the workings of cPanel then it would be a worthwhile exe= rcise to get it going. Your best bet on getting help to achieve this would b= e a cPanel support group as I am pretty sure that there is no-one using WebD= NA on cPanel. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Long term it would be beneficial to everyone and the WebDNA language t= o have WebDNA installed via cPanel. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I for one would be very interested in what you can achieve. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Stuart Tremain >>>>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>>>> AUSTRALIA >>>>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McCormick wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I recently upgraded a server at the hosting company I=E2=80=99ve bee= n using: futurehosting.com >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I have a dedicated machine, second from the max size. In addition t= o cPanel, that level of contract includes WHM, which is an administration le= vel that allows me to resell cPanel accounts. I would like to try to get a w= orking cPanel installation of WebDNA onto this machine to be used by anyone o= n this list to install WebDNA into any cPanel hosting environment. =20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> If I can get WebDNA functioning on this server, I will provide hosti= ng for redistribution for the fresh installation of cPanel & WebDNA for anyo= ne needing it for a cPanel hosting company. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke wrote= : >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Hey Brian... I think the gist is, it is great that you are using We= bDNA. The list is here to try and help. Unfortunately, the users here don=E2= =80=99t always have the the time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t hold tha= t against them. Stuart is a one of a very few champions of WebDNA. He deserv= es the respect that goes with that.=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> In short... us long-time members will always try to help if we can.= Just don=E2=80=99t F with us. We have been through a lot ;-) >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>>> Donovan=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> D. Brooke Mobile >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> FYI I NEVER MENTIONED YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! THEY= ALL ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS PLANNING O= N DOING SOMETHING TO REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE IF YOU REVIEW A= LL YOUR NOTES I SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY L= IFE EASIER ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!! >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:58 PM Stuart Tremain wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I have really leaned another one of this life's lessons today. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> As any member of this list will may or may not know I have been a= n active member of this list for 20+ years. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> During this time I have learned so much about the use of WebDNA f= rom people such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others that have since mov= ed on. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> I have always tried hard to return the favour and as such at time= s have gone far and beyond the task of offering help. I have enjoyed giving b= ack to the community from which my skills have grown. This I believe is the r= eason why I have been contracted by WebDNA users from around the world. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> I have seen many users over the years with configuration problems= , in particular the last few weeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the reason why I= wrote the instructions a week or so ago on how to set up WebDNA on a fresh i= nstallation of Ubuntu 18.04 - I even went as far as to provide an image of t= he same available to anyone that would like it, all in the hope that WebDNA w= ould become a quick easy solution for members of this list to implement. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> I had a number of people request a copy of this image, none of wh= om have taken up the offer. One user requested that I build an image that an= yone could use on any platform. However this is not possible for cloud serve= rs as each cloud provider has their own flavour of Ubuntu tuned to their hos= ting configuration. The instructions that I publish will work if you follow t= he steps on any host and/or new Ubuntu 18.0 installation. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> And then along came Brian Harrington.=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> I must preface this with the fact that everything that i have don= e for Brian was at no charge, purely a gesture of good will that I extend to= all members of this list. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Brian was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet that he cre= ated. I offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hurdle - less t= han a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual server) using s= sh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, and had not receiv= ed the image that I had shared with him from DigitalOcean. So to make things= easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t have to go backwards I simply complete= d the installation from the instructions that I had published. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Less than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner of a shiny new Ubu= ntu 18.04 server complete with a working installation of WebDNA server that w= as only requiring a license number. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> As you will know, if you have read the published instructions, We= bmin is also installed on the Droplet. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> What happened next is purely comical, if I published the emails t= hat I received and you read the warnings that I provided, plus the repeated a= dvice that I gave, you would see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s problems are= .. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> =46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to /va= r/www/html and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was 100% func= tional with all the standard file extensions that are installed with the Web= DNA installer. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> As an additional task I set up two Virtual Hosts, one on 80 the o= ther on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so that he could have a= working reference. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> However Brian had other plans, he wanted to create a new director= y /Library/Websites to be the root directory of his webserver, remember this= is the same person that has had no experience with a Linux server, he has h= ad experience with a Mac server so I believed that he had a good sense of be= ing able to manage a Linux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99t want to use the inst= alled Webmin, he wanted to do all Apache configuration by uploading files wi= th FTP however he didn=E2=80=99t have a FTP client. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Brian, you may remember the Skype message that I sent you express= ing my concern that if you work outside the standard installation you would b= reak it. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> For the rest of the week I continued to help him, answer his ques= tions, provide advice. All the time doing my own work that Brian=E2=80=99s e= mails were interrupting. As I live in Sydney there were times that I was not= able to answer him immediately due to the 10 hour time difference. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) I received yet another ema= il from Brian - he had locked himself out of his server, yes, I fixed this f= or him too, repaired his non-root user with sudo privileges and advised him t= hat in 19 minutes time I would be leaving for the weekend. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my comput= er this morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day yesterday to see t= he usually quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian continuing to have issues wi= th his installation. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> What does surprise me, and leads me to writing this email are com= ments pointed to myself by Brian such as: >>>>>>>>>> "TalkList members say they will help... then they are GONE and su= ddenly don't has access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than someone s= etting you up to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Brian had a very large VHost file that he moved from his Mac serv= er to the Linux environment without any alterations. He believes that it was= easier to change the configuration of the Linux/Apache server than to use s= earch and replace on his VHost file. Brian=E2=80=99s problems relate directl= y to Permissions and the relocation of his server root. I note that Brian ha= s said:=20 >>>>>>>>>> " I have no idea why Stuart thinks /Library/Webserver files are g= onna be an issue when apache2.conf list share folder and everything else.=E2= =80=9D, I guess to Brian taking advice from someone that has 23 operational U= buntu 18.04 servers really doesn=E2=80=99t make much sense. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> So Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been 100%= operational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the /var/www/htm= l directory and had their ownership and preferences checked, and had simply c= hanged the root locations in your vhost configuration file simply with a sea= rch and replace with your text editor. If you listened to the FREE advice th= at you were given or you could have even asked me to do it you would have ha= d a fully functional server many days ago. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Now I would like to see a retraction of the ill placed comments t= hat you have made about me. >>>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Stuart Tremain >>>>>>>>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>>>>>>>> AUSTRALIA >>>>>>>>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This me= ssage is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@web= dna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.= webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> --=20 >>>>>>>>> Brian Harrington >>>>>>>>> Auto Glass Xpress >>>>>>>>> 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 >>>>>>>>> Getzville, NY 14068 >>>>>>>>> (716) 861-2029 >>>>>>>>> www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This mes= sage is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webd= na.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.w= ebdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This mess= age is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdn= a.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.we= bdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This messa= ge is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna= ..us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.web= dna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This messag= e is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.= us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webd= na.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>>=20 >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This message= is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.u= s To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdn= a.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>=20 >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This message i= s sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us T= o unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.u= s/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Brian Harrington >>> Auto Glass Xpress >>> 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 >>> Getzville, NY 14068 >>> (716) 861-2029 >>> www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com >>> --------------------------------------------------------- This message i= s sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us T= o unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.u= s/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>=20 >> --------------------------------------------------------- This message is= sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us T= o unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.u= s/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Brian Harrington > Auto Glass Xpress > 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 > Getzville, NY 14068 > (716) 861-2029 > www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com > --------------------------------------------------------- This message is s= ent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To u= nsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/p= age.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail-D08B19FB-2505-4005-BC37-8E410E031BFE Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Horse water oh well
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
On Oct 1, 2019, at 06:45, Bria= n Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Thanks= Patrick... I only host my own stuff and it's easy working on websites right= on the server so u can see instant result of your work. Once my Mac is setu= p and it's usually just minutes now it seems to run forever and is very fast= and stable. I tried Digital Ocean (DO) and the sites went don't numerous ti= mes for no reason and I was not even doing anything on the droplet and I spe= nt endless hours just trying to figure out where things were on their 2 site= s (admin and website) that are so similar I got lost between them many times= .... And their forms I have no idea what the input should be and they offer n= o examples. I would still need my computer to build sites on and I spent a h= alf day just researching and trying things  to accomplish that... I= seen and tried examples to modify the temperamental host file that did not w= ork and I ordered a switch/router through Amazon as I know that worked for m= e in the past... my Desktop was a mess working on the DO project... I had th= eir web pages open... their admin... the terminal window... FTP software... t= ext editor... skype and all that just to work remotely via FTP...? I'm fluid= in HTML and WebDna and can figure out what I need done in Javascript and CS= S and that's all you needed in the past. I really need to learn Front-End an= d responsive design and glad u mentioned Wordpress that I could not install a= nyways on my older Mac and now settling in on my newer one could. I'm lookin= g at Material Design for Bootstrap (MDB)...???

On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 5:09 AM P= atrick McCormick <duganmccorm= ick@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Brian - that is rea= lly weird.  I have never tried multiple ethernet connections on the sam= e address because I just assumed that it couldn=E2=80=99t possibly work that= way.

One of the best things about cloud hosting is never= ever having to think about that sort of stuff again. Ever.  Every diol= of hardware is configured redundantly.  As soon as a data center gets a= new server blade installed into a rack, its components - RAM, CPU, disk, et= c., are inventoried and optimally distributed to that company=E2=80=99s cust= omers.  There is no relationship between what server specs I buy and an= y specific machines in the data center. Everything is abstracted so that any= thing can fail without interrupting any services. It gets pretty confusing b= ut products like vSphere are what data centers use to manage their equipment= ..  That system just tells them how much additional CPU, RAM & disk t= hey need to keep up with current load and they can also buy in bulk from Ama= zon, Google, Facebook, etc., if they need quick additional capacity while th= ey wait for delivery of physical equipment.

The oth= er thing I learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA developers operate at a= fraction of the typical website load that other content management systems t= ypically use.  Because WordPress comes with a back end & pre-packag= ed code for themes & plugins, it really =E2=80=9Cshits the bed=E2=80=9D i= n terms of cookies, variables, threads, and endless cruft just to be able to= keep track of everything.  PHP settings usually require a minimum of 2= 500 page variables and timeouts in excess of 180 seconds.  WordPress is= a resource hog many thousands of times larger than WebDAN simply because We= bDNA is just a blinking cursor.  There is no environment for themes, pl= ugins, and there is no content management back end at all.  You have to= build all of that from scratch.

I say get rid of a= ny responsibilities you can - especially hosting.  If WordPress can spi= n up a presentable website in a few clicks, complete with back end content m= anagement interface and unique theme, then there ought to be a relatively st= raight forward way to add WebDNA to that environment so that we can build an= y unique functions using WebDNA syntax and have those functions appear where= ver needed within WordPress (or, ultimately any other) CMS.

I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can assign the same IP to 2 dif= ferent physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t want my clients websites runni= ng on top of a mystery, if I can avoid it.  In my case, if I felt that a= nything was operating slowly, I would just send a tech support ticket saying= =E2=80=9Cit seems too slow=E2=80=9D and let them figure it out. I=E2=80=99m= done deciphering back end spooky nonsense when there readily available, tra= ined armies who are far better than me & my Mac.

Dumping responsibility makes a more stable server, and that certainly incl= udes hosting.  A managed server is fully redundant, automatically backe= d up and even client billings are fully automatic - to the point where, shou= ld a credit card get declined, the timer to automatically disable hosting go= es into effect & that client is notified by email.  The less code I= write, the less chance for any problems that I might cause.  THere=E2=80= =99s a huge war chest of pre-build & fully tested code available from pl= aces like GitHub.  Those represent all the people who have encountered a= nd solved the same problems I=E2=80=99ve run into, but they solved it with a= n entire group of contributors, any one of which are probably smarter than m= e.  Don=E2=80=99t I owe the best possible solutions to my clients? Then= why would I screw up my responsibility by thinking for a moment that my sin= gle mind might hold the best answers?  I=E2=80=99m pretty sure those ga= ngs would crush me every time. As a programmer, I tend to immediately attack= every challenge with my own code, but that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic= reaction for which my clients and I will both suffer. The correct response i= s the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2=80=99s already done the best job of solving= this already?=E2=80=9D And ironically, it=E2=80=99s the same coder=E2=80=99= s ego that motivates all those programmers to show off all that great coding= ability in places like GitHub. Think of the man years of proven, tested, fr= ee code that=E2=80=99s just sitting there, free for the taking.



On O= ct 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:
I know none of you care what I have to say and some o= f my ideas are off the wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache o= r slow internet connections.

My newer (2009) more powerfu= l Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM ram/ 4 1TB SSD's in RAID seemed to have fast s= peedtest but Apache still took about 30 seconds to deliver my web pages
 and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower was always= very quick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until suddenly it's connec= tion 400/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and took about 30 seconds or m= ore to deliver web pages. I tried every config on my router and network sett= ings and even tried 2 ethernet connections (different ip's) and still slow p= age loads. And just now I accidentally had my two ethernet connections a= t the same DHCP 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page loads into less than half...= Not sure if it matters but the remote DNS are reversed on the 2 connections= .... images attached.

It also might create a very li= ttle Redundancy if one ethernet port sho= uld fail... attached images. 

Note: Del= eted my Digital Ocean account as page loads the few times my sites were work= ing there are about the same as my home connection now and building site via= FTP is a pain and slow...

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart Tremai= n <webdna@p= lsoftware.com.au> wrote:
Hi Patrick

Unfortunately you can=E2=80= =99t rely on the WebDNA url(s) being current.

We ha= ve found recently that there is an Apache config that needs to be put into a= n override file, none of this is included in the WebDNA Server edition insta= llers.

If you want to make this happen I would conc= entrate on the fcgi version as this is designed to be relevant to the domain= root rather than servicing the entire machine, so in keeping with the cPane= l concept. A user would install WebDNA or PHP (not both), that is where WebD= NA needs to go to widen the use of the language. Getting in peoples faces is= the way to go, curious users would then at least look into the language and= hopefully give it a go.

I can=E2=80=99t see why it= could not be achieved, but then I have never done anything more than use cP= anel as a user.

I would really like to see this hap= pen.

Patrick it may be more appropriate to change t= his subject to cPanel & WebDNA

Kind reg= ards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane Software=
AUSTRALIA


=





On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McC= ormick <dug= anmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, Stuart,
Not only do I have access to the full machine, I have a 24/7 sta= ff that is willing to help with anything I ask them for.  They have bee= n outstanding.  It might work out great.

I kno= w I would probably have to make some sort of configuration utility for cPane= l & make a pretty icon, but cPanle is very well documented and I don=E2=80= =99t think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking a cPanel icon to the WebDNA c= onfig URL(s), once the software is properly installed in whatever version of= unix.



= On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Stuart Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
Hi Patrick

The addition of WebDNA into t= he app library of cPanel would be a great boost for WebDNA..

<= /div>
Many years ago I shopped around different hosting companies for th= em to make WebDNA available on their cPanel configs - none were willing.

If you have total access to your machine and are famil= iar with the OS on the machine and the workings of cPanel then it would be a= worthwhile exercise to get it going. Your best bet on getting help to achie= ve this would be a cPanel support group as I am pretty sure that there is no= -one using WebDNA on cPanel.

Long term it would be b= eneficial to everyone and the WebDNA language to have WebDNA installed via c= Panel.

I for one would be very interested in what y= ou can achieve.


Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lan= e Software
AUSTRALIA

=






On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McC= ormick <dug= anmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

I recently upgraded a= server at the hosting company I=E2=80=99ve been using:  futurehosting.com

I have a dedicated machine, second from the max size.  In additi= on to cPanel, that level of contract includes WHM, which is an administratio= n level that allows me to resell cPanel accounts. I would like to try to get= a working cPanel installation of WebDNA onto this machine to be used by any= one on this list to install WebDNA into any cPanel hosting environment. &nbs= p;

If I can get WebDNA functioning on this server, I= will provide hosting for redistribution for the fresh installation of cPane= l & WebDNA for anyone needing it for a cPanel hosting company.




O= n Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke <dbrooke@euca.us> wrote:

Hey Brian... I think the gist is, it is great that you are using W= ebDNA. The list is here to try and help. Unfortunately, the users here don=E2= =80=99t always have the the time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t hold tha= t against them. Stuart is a one of a very few champions of WebDNA. He deserv= es the respect that goes with that. 

In short... us l= ong-time members will always try to help if we can. Just don=E2=80=99t F wit= h us. We have been through a lot ;-)

Cheers.
<= div>Donovan 

D. Brooke Mobile

On Sep 29, 2019, at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

FYI I NEVER MENTIONED YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! THEY ALL= ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS PLANNING ON D= OING SOMETHING TO REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE IF YOU REVIEW ALL= YOUR NOTES I SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY LI= FE EASIER ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!!

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7= :58 PM Stuart Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
I have really leaned another one of t= his life's lessons today.

As any member of this list will= may or may not know I have been an active member of this list for 20+ years= ..

During this time I have learned so much about the= use of WebDNA from people such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others tha= t have since moved on.

I have always tried hard to r= eturn the favour and as such at times have gone far and beyond the task of o= ffering help. I have enjoyed giving back to the community from which my skil= ls have grown. This I believe is the reason why I have been contracted by We= bDNA users from around the world.

I have seen many u= sers over the years with configuration problems, in particular the last few w= eeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the reason why I wrote the instructions a week= or so ago on how to set up WebDNA on a fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04 -= I even went as far as to provide an image of the same available to anyone t= hat would like it, all in the hope that WebDNA would become a quick easy sol= ution for members of this list to implement.

I had a= number of people request a copy of this image, none of whom have taken up t= he offer. One user requested that I build an image that anyone could use on a= ny platform. However this is not possible for cloud servers as each cloud pr= ovider has their own flavour of Ubuntu tuned to their hosting configuration.= The instructions that I publish will work if you follow the steps on any ho= st and/or new Ubuntu 18.0 installation.

And then al= ong came Brian Harrington. 

I must preface thi= s with the fact that everything that i have done for Brian was at no charge,= purely a gesture of good will that I extend to all members of this list.

Brian was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet= that he created. I offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hu= rdle - less than a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual se= rver) using ssh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, and h= ad not received the image that I had shared with him from DigitalOcean. So t= o make things easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t have to go backwards I si= mply completed the installation from the instructions that I had publis= hed.

Less than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner= of a shiny new Ubuntu 18.04 server complete with a working installation of W= ebDNA server that was only requiring a license number.

<= div>As you will know, if you have read the published instructions, Webmin is= also installed on the Droplet.

What happened next i= s purely comical, if I published the emails that I received and you read the= warnings that I provided, plus the repeated advice that I gave,  you w= ould see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s problems are.

=46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to /var/www/htm= l and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was 100% functional wi= th all the standard file extensions that are installed with the WebDNA insta= ller.

As an additional task I set up two Virtual Ho= sts, one on 80 the other on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so= that he could have a working reference.

However Br= ian had other plans, he wanted to create a new directory /Library/Websites t= o be the root directory of his webserver, remember this is the same person t= hat has had no experience with a Linux server, he has had experience with a M= ac server so I believed that he had a good sense of being able to manage a L= inux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99t want to use the installed Webmin, he wante= d to do all Apache configuration by uploading files with FTP however he didn= =E2=80=99t have a FTP client.

Brian, you may rememb= er the Skype message that I sent you expressing my concern that if you work o= utside the standard installation you would break it.

For the rest of the week I continued to help him, answer his questions, pr= ovide advice. All the time doing my own work that Brian=E2=80=99s emails wer= e interrupting. As I live in Sydney there were times that I was not able to a= nswer him immediately due to the 10 hour time difference.

Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) I received yet another email f= rom Brian - he had locked himself out of his server, yes, I fixed this for h= im too, repaired his non-root user with sudo privileges and advised him that= in 19 minutes time I would be leaving for the weekend.

=
So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my computer thi= s morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day yesterday to see the usu= ally quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian continuing to have issues with his= installation.

What does surprise me, and leads me t= o writing this email are comments pointed to myself by Brian such as:
<= div>"TalkList members say they will help... then they are GONE and s= uddenly don't has access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than someone s= etting you up to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D

Brian had a very large VHost= file that he moved from his Mac server to the Linux environment without any= alterations. He believes that it was easier to change the configuration of t= he Linux/Apache server than to use search and replace on his VHost file. Bri= an=E2=80=99s problems relate directly to Permissions and the relocation of h= is server root. I note that Brian has said: 
" I have no idea why Stua= rt thinks /Library/Webserver files are gonna be an issue when apache2.conf l= ist share folder and everything else.=E2=80=9D, I guess to Brian taking a= dvice from someone that has 23 operational Ubuntu 18.04 servers really d= oesn=E2=80=99t make much sense.

So Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been 100% ope= rational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the /var/www/html&nb= sp;directory and had their ownership and preferences checked, and had s= imply changed the root locations in your vhost configuration file s= imply with a search and replace with your text editor. If you listened to th= e FREE advice that you were given or you could have even asked me to do it y= ou would have had a fully functional server many days ago.
=
Now I would like to see a retraction of the ill p= laced comments that you have made about me.
 
=
Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane Software
AU= STRALIA


=




--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us


--
Brian Harrington<= /div>
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063
=
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--
Brian Harrington<= /div>
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063
=
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us<= Screen Shot 2019-10-01 at 1.36.01 AM.png><Screen Shot 2019-10-01 at 1.36.16 AM.png= >
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--
Brian Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millers= port Hwy. Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029<= /div>
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us= --------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail-D08B19FB-2505-4005-BC37-8E410E031BFE-- . Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:

    
  1. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  2. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  3. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  4. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Bob Minor 2019)
  5. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  6. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  7. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  8. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Stuart Tremain 2019)
  9. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  10. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Stuart Tremain 2019)
  11. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  12. RE: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington ("Scott @ Itsula" 2019)
  13. RE: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington ("Scott @ Itsula" 2019)
  14. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  15. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  16. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  17. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  18. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Donovan Brooke 2019)
  19. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Bob Minor 2019)
  20. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  21. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  22. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  23. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  24. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  25. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  26. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  27. RE: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington ("Scott @ Itsula" 2019)
  28. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  29. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (H - Powerpalle 2019)
  30. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Bob Minor 2019)
  31. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Donovan Brooke 2019)
  32. [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Stuart Tremain 2019)
2484 --Apple-Mail-D08B19FB-2505-4005-BC37-8E410E031BFE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Horse water oh well > On Oct 1, 2019, at 06:45, Brian Harrington wrote:= >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Thanks Patrick... I only host my own stuff and it's easy working on websit= es right on the server so u can see instant result of your work. Once my Mac= is setup and it's usually just minutes now it seems to run forever and is v= ery fast and stable. I tried Digital Ocean (DO) and the sites went don't num= erous times for no reason and I was not even doing anything on the droplet a= nd I spent endless hours just trying to figure out where things were on thei= r 2 sites (admin and website) that are so similar I got lost between them ma= ny times... And their forms I have no idea what the input should be and they= offer no examples. I would still need my computer to build sites on and I s= pent a half day just researching and trying things to accomplish that... I s= een and tried examples to modify the temperamental host file that did not wo= rk and I ordered a switch/router through Amazon as I know that worked for me= in the past... my Desktop was a mess working on the DO project... I had the= ir web pages open... their admin... the terminal window... FTP software... t= ext editor... skype and all that just to work remotely via FTP...? I'm fluid= in HTML and WebDna and can figure out what I need done in Javascript and CS= S and that's all you needed in the past. I really need to learn Front-End an= d responsive design and glad u mentioned Wordpress that I could not install a= nyways on my older Mac and now settling in on my newer one could. I'm lookin= g at Material Design for Bootstrap (MDB)...??? >=20 >> On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 5:09 AM Patrick McCormick wrote: >> Hey Brian - that is really weird. I have never tried multiple ethernet c= onnections on the same address because I just assumed that it couldn=E2=80=99= t possibly work that way. >>=20 >> One of the best things about cloud hosting is never ever having to think a= bout that sort of stuff again. Ever. Every diol of hardware is configured r= edundantly. As soon as a data center gets a new server blade installed into= a rack, its components - RAM, CPU, disk, etc., are inventoried and optimall= y distributed to that company=E2=80=99s customers. There is no relationship= between what server specs I buy and any specific machines in the data cente= r. Everything is abstracted so that anything can fail without interrupting a= ny services. It gets pretty confusing but products like vSphere are what dat= a centers use to manage their equipment. That system just tells them how mu= ch additional CPU, RAM & disk they need to keep up with current load and the= y can also buy in bulk from Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc., if they need qui= ck additional capacity while they wait for delivery of physical equipment. >>=20 >> The other thing I learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA developers op= erate at a fraction of the typical website load that other content managemen= t systems typically use. Because WordPress comes with a back end & pre-pack= aged code for themes & plugins, it really =E2=80=9Cshits the bed=E2=80=9D in= terms of cookies, variables, threads, and endless cruft just to be able to k= eep track of everything. PHP settings usually require a minimum of 2500 pag= e variables and timeouts in excess of 180 seconds. WordPress is a resource h= og many thousands of times larger than WebDAN simply because WebDNA is just a= blinking cursor. There is no environment for themes, plugins, and there is= no content management back end at all. You have to build all of that from s= cratch. >>=20 >> I say get rid of any responsibilities you can - especially hosting. If W= ordPress can spin up a presentable website in a few clicks, complete with ba= ck end content management interface and unique theme, then there ought to be= a relatively straight forward way to add WebDNA to that environment so that= we can build any unique functions using WebDNA syntax and have those functi= ons appear wherever needed within WordPress (or, ultimately any other) CMS. >>=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can assign the same IP to 2 different= physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t want my clients websites running on t= op of a mystery, if I can avoid it. In my case, if I felt that anything was= operating slowly, I would just send a tech support ticket saying =E2=80=9Ci= t seems too slow=E2=80=9D and let them figure it out. I=E2=80=99m done decip= hering back end spooky nonsense when there readily available, trained armies= who are far better than me & my Mac. >>=20 >> Dumping responsibility makes a more stable server, and that certainly inc= ludes hosting. A managed server is fully redundant, automatically backed up= and even client billings are fully automatic - to the point where, should a= credit card get declined, the timer to automatically disable hosting goes i= nto effect & that client is notified by email. The less code I write, the l= ess chance for any problems that I might cause. THere=E2=80=99s a huge war c= hest of pre-build & fully tested code available from places like GitHub. Th= ose represent all the people who have encountered and solved the same proble= ms I=E2=80=99ve run into, but they solved it with an entire group of contrib= utors, any one of which are probably smarter than me. Don=E2=80=99t I owe t= he best possible solutions to my clients? Then why would I screw up my respo= nsibility by thinking for a moment that my single mind might hold the best a= nswers? I=E2=80=99m pretty sure those gangs would crush me every time. As a= programmer, I tend to immediately attack every challenge with my own code, b= ut that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic reaction for which my clients and I= will both suffer. The correct response is the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2=80= =99s already done the best job of solving this already?=E2=80=9D And ironica= lly, it=E2=80=99s the same coder=E2=80=99s ego that motivates all those prog= rammers to show off all that great coding ability in places like GitHub. Thi= nk of the man years of proven, tested, free code that=E2=80=99s just sitting= there, free for the taking. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Brian Harrington w= rote: >>>=20 >>> I know none of you care what I have to say and some of my ideas are off t= he wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache or slow internet con= nections. >>>=20 >>> My newer (2009) more powerful Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM ram/ 4 1TB SSD= 's in RAID seemed to have fast speedtest but Apache still took about 30 seco= nds to deliver my web pages >>> and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower was always very q= uick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until suddenly it's connection 40= 0/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and took about 30 seconds or more to d= eliver web pages. I tried every config on my router and network settings and= even tried 2 ethernet connections (different ip's) and still slow page load= s. And just now I accidentally had my two ethernet connections at the same D= HCP 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page loads into less than half... Not sure if= it matters but the remote DNS are reversed on the 2 connections... images a= ttached. >>>=20 >>> It also might create a very little Redundancy if one ethernet port shoul= d fail... attached images.=20 >>>=20 >>> Note: Deleted my Digital Ocean account as page loads the few times my si= tes were working there are about the same as my home connection now and buil= ding site via FTP is a pain and slow... >>>=20 >>>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart Tremain wrote: >>>> Hi Patrick >>>>=20 >>>> Unfortunately you can=E2=80=99t rely on the WebDNA url(s) being current= .. >>>>=20 >>>> We have found recently that there is an Apache config that needs to be p= ut into an override file, none of this is included in the WebDNA Server edit= ion installers. >>>>=20 >>>> If you want to make this happen I would concentrate on the fcgi version= as this is designed to be relevant to the domain root rather than servicing= the entire machine, so in keeping with the cPanel concept. A user would ins= tall WebDNA or PHP (not both), that is where WebDNA needs to go to widen the= use of the language. Getting in peoples faces is the way to go, curious use= rs would then at least look into the language and hopefully give it a go. >>>>=20 >>>> I can=E2=80=99t see why it could not be achieved, but then I have never= done anything more than use cPanel as a user. >>>>=20 >>>> I would really like to see this happen. >>>>=20 >>>> Patrick it may be more appropriate to change this subject to cPanel & W= ebDNA >>>>=20 >>>> Kind regards >>>>=20 >>>> Stuart Tremain >>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McCormick w= rote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Yes, Stuart, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Not only do I have access to the full machine, I have a 24/7 staff tha= t is willing to help with anything I ask them for. They have been outstandi= ng. It might work out great. >>>>>=20 >>>>> I know I would probably have to make some sort of configuration utilit= y for cPanel & make a pretty icon, but cPanle is very well documented and I d= on=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking a cPanel icon to the W= ebDNA config URL(s), once the software is properly installed in whatever ver= sion of unix. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Stuart Tremain wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi Patrick >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The addition of WebDNA into the app library of cPanel would be a grea= t boost for WebDNA.. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Many years ago I shopped around different hosting companies for them t= o make WebDNA available on their cPanel configs - none were willing. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> If you have total access to your machine and are familiar with the OS= on the machine and the workings of cPanel then it would be a worthwhile exe= rcise to get it going. Your best bet on getting help to achieve this would b= e a cPanel support group as I am pretty sure that there is no-one using WebD= NA on cPanel. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Long term it would be beneficial to everyone and the WebDNA language t= o have WebDNA installed via cPanel. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I for one would be very interested in what you can achieve. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Stuart Tremain >>>>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>>>> AUSTRALIA >>>>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McCormick wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I recently upgraded a server at the hosting company I=E2=80=99ve bee= n using: futurehosting.com >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I have a dedicated machine, second from the max size. In addition t= o cPanel, that level of contract includes WHM, which is an administration le= vel that allows me to resell cPanel accounts. I would like to try to get a w= orking cPanel installation of WebDNA onto this machine to be used by anyone o= n this list to install WebDNA into any cPanel hosting environment. =20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> If I can get WebDNA functioning on this server, I will provide hosti= ng for redistribution for the fresh installation of cPanel & WebDNA for anyo= ne needing it for a cPanel hosting company. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke wrote= : >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Hey Brian... I think the gist is, it is great that you are using We= bDNA. The list is here to try and help. Unfortunately, the users here don=E2= =80=99t always have the the time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t hold tha= t against them. Stuart is a one of a very few champions of WebDNA. He deserv= es the respect that goes with that.=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> In short... us long-time members will always try to help if we can.= Just don=E2=80=99t F with us. We have been through a lot ;-) >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>>> Donovan=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> D. Brooke Mobile >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> FYI I NEVER MENTIONED YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! THEY= ALL ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS PLANNING O= N DOING SOMETHING TO REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE IF YOU REVIEW A= LL YOUR NOTES I SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY L= IFE EASIER ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!! >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:58 PM Stuart Tremain wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I have really leaned another one of this life's lessons today. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> As any member of this list will may or may not know I have been a= n active member of this list for 20+ years. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> During this time I have learned so much about the use of WebDNA f= rom people such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others that have since mov= ed on. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> I have always tried hard to return the favour and as such at time= s have gone far and beyond the task of offering help. I have enjoyed giving b= ack to the community from which my skills have grown. This I believe is the r= eason why I have been contracted by WebDNA users from around the world. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> I have seen many users over the years with configuration problems= , in particular the last few weeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the reason why I= wrote the instructions a week or so ago on how to set up WebDNA on a fresh i= nstallation of Ubuntu 18.04 - I even went as far as to provide an image of t= he same available to anyone that would like it, all in the hope that WebDNA w= ould become a quick easy solution for members of this list to implement. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> I had a number of people request a copy of this image, none of wh= om have taken up the offer. One user requested that I build an image that an= yone could use on any platform. However this is not possible for cloud serve= rs as each cloud provider has their own flavour of Ubuntu tuned to their hos= ting configuration. The instructions that I publish will work if you follow t= he steps on any host and/or new Ubuntu 18.0 installation. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> And then along came Brian Harrington.=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> I must preface this with the fact that everything that i have don= e for Brian was at no charge, purely a gesture of good will that I extend to= all members of this list. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Brian was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet that he cre= ated. I offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hurdle - less t= han a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual server) using s= sh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, and had not receiv= ed the image that I had shared with him from DigitalOcean. So to make things= easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t have to go backwards I simply complete= d the installation from the instructions that I had published. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Less than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner of a shiny new Ubu= ntu 18.04 server complete with a working installation of WebDNA server that w= as only requiring a license number. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> As you will know, if you have read the published instructions, We= bmin is also installed on the Droplet. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> What happened next is purely comical, if I published the emails t= hat I received and you read the warnings that I provided, plus the repeated a= dvice that I gave, you would see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s problems are= .. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> =46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to /va= r/www/html and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was 100% func= tional with all the standard file extensions that are installed with the Web= DNA installer. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> As an additional task I set up two Virtual Hosts, one on 80 the o= ther on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so that he could have a= working reference. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> However Brian had other plans, he wanted to create a new director= y /Library/Websites to be the root directory of his webserver, remember this= is the same person that has had no experience with a Linux server, he has h= ad experience with a Mac server so I believed that he had a good sense of be= ing able to manage a Linux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99t want to use the inst= alled Webmin, he wanted to do all Apache configuration by uploading files wi= th FTP however he didn=E2=80=99t have a FTP client. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Brian, you may remember the Skype message that I sent you express= ing my concern that if you work outside the standard installation you would b= reak it. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> For the rest of the week I continued to help him, answer his ques= tions, provide advice. All the time doing my own work that Brian=E2=80=99s e= mails were interrupting. As I live in Sydney there were times that I was not= able to answer him immediately due to the 10 hour time difference. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) I received yet another ema= il from Brian - he had locked himself out of his server, yes, I fixed this f= or him too, repaired his non-root user with sudo privileges and advised him t= hat in 19 minutes time I would be leaving for the weekend. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my comput= er this morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day yesterday to see t= he usually quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian continuing to have issues wi= th his installation. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> What does surprise me, and leads me to writing this email are com= ments pointed to myself by Brian such as: >>>>>>>>>> "TalkList members say they will help... then they are GONE and su= ddenly don't has access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than someone s= etting you up to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Brian had a very large VHost file that he moved from his Mac serv= er to the Linux environment without any alterations. He believes that it was= easier to change the configuration of the Linux/Apache server than to use s= earch and replace on his VHost file. Brian=E2=80=99s problems relate directl= y to Permissions and the relocation of his server root. I note that Brian ha= s said:=20 >>>>>>>>>> " I have no idea why Stuart thinks /Library/Webserver files are g= onna be an issue when apache2.conf list share folder and everything else.=E2= =80=9D, I guess to Brian taking advice from someone that has 23 operational U= buntu 18.04 servers really doesn=E2=80=99t make much sense. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> So Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been 100%= operational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the /var/www/htm= l directory and had their ownership and preferences checked, and had simply c= hanged the root locations in your vhost configuration file simply with a sea= rch and replace with your text editor. If you listened to the FREE advice th= at you were given or you could have even asked me to do it you would have ha= d a fully functional server many days ago. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Now I would like to see a retraction of the ill placed comments t= hat you have made about me. >>>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Stuart Tremain >>>>>>>>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>>>>>>>> AUSTRALIA >>>>>>>>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This me= ssage is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@web= dna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.= webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> --=20 >>>>>>>>> Brian Harrington >>>>>>>>> Auto Glass Xpress >>>>>>>>> 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 >>>>>>>>> Getzville, NY 14068 >>>>>>>>> (716) 861-2029 >>>>>>>>> www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This mes= sage is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webd= na.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.w= ebdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This mess= age is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdn= a.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.we= bdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This messa= ge is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna= ..us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.web= dna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This messag= e is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.= us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webd= na.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>>=20 >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This message= is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.u= s To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdn= a.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>>=20 >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This message i= s sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us T= o unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.u= s/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Brian Harrington >>> Auto Glass Xpress >>> 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 >>> Getzville, NY 14068 >>> (716) 861-2029 >>> www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com >>> --------------------------------------------------------- This message i= s sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us T= o unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.u= s/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >>=20 >> --------------------------------------------------------- This message is= sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us T= o unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.u= s/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Brian Harrington > Auto Glass Xpress > 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 > Getzville, NY 14068 > (716) 861-2029 > www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com > --------------------------------------------------------- This message is s= ent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To u= nsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/p= age.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail-D08B19FB-2505-4005-BC37-8E410E031BFE Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Horse water oh well
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
On Oct 1, 2019, at 06:45, Bria= n Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Thanks= Patrick... I only host my own stuff and it's easy working on websites right= on the server so u can see instant result of your work. Once my Mac is setu= p and it's usually just minutes now it seems to run forever and is very fast= and stable. I tried Digital Ocean (DO) and the sites went don't numerous ti= mes for no reason and I was not even doing anything on the droplet and I spe= nt endless hours just trying to figure out where things were on their 2 site= s (admin and website) that are so similar I got lost between them many times= .... And their forms I have no idea what the input should be and they offer n= o examples. I would still need my computer to build sites on and I spent a h= alf day just researching and trying things  to accomplish that... I= seen and tried examples to modify the temperamental host file that did not w= ork and I ordered a switch/router through Amazon as I know that worked for m= e in the past... my Desktop was a mess working on the DO project... I had th= eir web pages open... their admin... the terminal window... FTP software... t= ext editor... skype and all that just to work remotely via FTP...? I'm fluid= in HTML and WebDna and can figure out what I need done in Javascript and CS= S and that's all you needed in the past. I really need to learn Front-End an= d responsive design and glad u mentioned Wordpress that I could not install a= nyways on my older Mac and now settling in on my newer one could. I'm lookin= g at Material Design for Bootstrap (MDB)...???

On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 5:09 AM P= atrick McCormick <duganmccorm= ick@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Brian - that is rea= lly weird.  I have never tried multiple ethernet connections on the sam= e address because I just assumed that it couldn=E2=80=99t possibly work that= way.

One of the best things about cloud hosting is never= ever having to think about that sort of stuff again. Ever.  Every diol= of hardware is configured redundantly.  As soon as a data center gets a= new server blade installed into a rack, its components - RAM, CPU, disk, et= c., are inventoried and optimally distributed to that company=E2=80=99s cust= omers.  There is no relationship between what server specs I buy and an= y specific machines in the data center. Everything is abstracted so that any= thing can fail without interrupting any services. It gets pretty confusing b= ut products like vSphere are what data centers use to manage their equipment= ..  That system just tells them how much additional CPU, RAM & disk t= hey need to keep up with current load and they can also buy in bulk from Ama= zon, Google, Facebook, etc., if they need quick additional capacity while th= ey wait for delivery of physical equipment.

The oth= er thing I learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA developers operate at a= fraction of the typical website load that other content management systems t= ypically use.  Because WordPress comes with a back end & pre-packag= ed code for themes & plugins, it really =E2=80=9Cshits the bed=E2=80=9D i= n terms of cookies, variables, threads, and endless cruft just to be able to= keep track of everything.  PHP settings usually require a minimum of 2= 500 page variables and timeouts in excess of 180 seconds.  WordPress is= a resource hog many thousands of times larger than WebDAN simply because We= bDNA is just a blinking cursor.  There is no environment for themes, pl= ugins, and there is no content management back end at all.  You have to= build all of that from scratch.

I say get rid of a= ny responsibilities you can - especially hosting.  If WordPress can spi= n up a presentable website in a few clicks, complete with back end content m= anagement interface and unique theme, then there ought to be a relatively st= raight forward way to add WebDNA to that environment so that we can build an= y unique functions using WebDNA syntax and have those functions appear where= ver needed within WordPress (or, ultimately any other) CMS.

I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can assign the same IP to 2 dif= ferent physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t want my clients websites runni= ng on top of a mystery, if I can avoid it.  In my case, if I felt that a= nything was operating slowly, I would just send a tech support ticket saying= =E2=80=9Cit seems too slow=E2=80=9D and let them figure it out. I=E2=80=99m= done deciphering back end spooky nonsense when there readily available, tra= ined armies who are far better than me & my Mac.

Dumping responsibility makes a more stable server, and that certainly incl= udes hosting.  A managed server is fully redundant, automatically backe= d up and even client billings are fully automatic - to the point where, shou= ld a credit card get declined, the timer to automatically disable hosting go= es into effect & that client is notified by email.  The less code I= write, the less chance for any problems that I might cause.  THere=E2=80= =99s a huge war chest of pre-build & fully tested code available from pl= aces like GitHub.  Those represent all the people who have encountered a= nd solved the same problems I=E2=80=99ve run into, but they solved it with a= n entire group of contributors, any one of which are probably smarter than m= e.  Don=E2=80=99t I owe the best possible solutions to my clients? Then= why would I screw up my responsibility by thinking for a moment that my sin= gle mind might hold the best answers?  I=E2=80=99m pretty sure those ga= ngs would crush me every time. As a programmer, I tend to immediately attack= every challenge with my own code, but that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic= reaction for which my clients and I will both suffer. The correct response i= s the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2=80=99s already done the best job of solving= this already?=E2=80=9D And ironically, it=E2=80=99s the same coder=E2=80=99= s ego that motivates all those programmers to show off all that great coding= ability in places like GitHub. Think of the man years of proven, tested, fr= ee code that=E2=80=99s just sitting there, free for the taking.



On O= ct 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:
I know none of you care what I have to say and some o= f my ideas are off the wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache o= r slow internet connections.

My newer (2009) more powerfu= l Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM ram/ 4 1TB SSD's in RAID seemed to have fast s= peedtest but Apache still took about 30 seconds to deliver my web pages
 and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower was always= very quick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until suddenly it's connec= tion 400/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and took about 30 seconds or m= ore to deliver web pages. I tried every config on my router and network sett= ings and even tried 2 ethernet connections (different ip's) and still slow p= age loads. And just now I accidentally had my two ethernet connections a= t the same DHCP 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page loads into less than half...= Not sure if it matters but the remote DNS are reversed on the 2 connections= .... images attached.

It also might create a very li= ttle Redundancy if one ethernet port sho= uld fail... attached images. 

Note: Del= eted my Digital Ocean account as page loads the few times my sites were work= ing there are about the same as my home connection now and building site via= FTP is a pain and slow...

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart Tremai= n <webdna@p= lsoftware.com.au> wrote:
Hi Patrick

Unfortunately you can=E2=80= =99t rely on the WebDNA url(s) being current.

We ha= ve found recently that there is an Apache config that needs to be put into a= n override file, none of this is included in the WebDNA Server edition insta= llers.

If you want to make this happen I would conc= entrate on the fcgi version as this is designed to be relevant to the domain= root rather than servicing the entire machine, so in keeping with the cPane= l concept. A user would install WebDNA or PHP (not both), that is where WebD= NA needs to go to widen the use of the language. Getting in peoples faces is= the way to go, curious users would then at least look into the language and= hopefully give it a go.

I can=E2=80=99t see why it= could not be achieved, but then I have never done anything more than use cP= anel as a user.

I would really like to see this hap= pen.

Patrick it may be more appropriate to change t= his subject to cPanel & WebDNA

Kind reg= ards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane Software=
AUSTRALIA


=





On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McC= ormick <dug= anmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, Stuart,
Not only do I have access to the full machine, I have a 24/7 sta= ff that is willing to help with anything I ask them for.  They have bee= n outstanding.  It might work out great.

I kno= w I would probably have to make some sort of configuration utility for cPane= l & make a pretty icon, but cPanle is very well documented and I don=E2=80= =99t think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking a cPanel icon to the WebDNA c= onfig URL(s), once the software is properly installed in whatever version of= unix.



= On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Stuart Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
Hi Patrick

The addition of WebDNA into t= he app library of cPanel would be a great boost for WebDNA..

<= /div>
Many years ago I shopped around different hosting companies for th= em to make WebDNA available on their cPanel configs - none were willing.

If you have total access to your machine and are famil= iar with the OS on the machine and the workings of cPanel then it would be a= worthwhile exercise to get it going. Your best bet on getting help to achie= ve this would be a cPanel support group as I am pretty sure that there is no= -one using WebDNA on cPanel.

Long term it would be b= eneficial to everyone and the WebDNA language to have WebDNA installed via c= Panel.

I for one would be very interested in what y= ou can achieve.


Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lan= e Software
AUSTRALIA

=






On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McC= ormick <dug= anmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

I recently upgraded a= server at the hosting company I=E2=80=99ve been using:  futurehosting.com

I have a dedicated machine, second from the max size.  In additi= on to cPanel, that level of contract includes WHM, which is an administratio= n level that allows me to resell cPanel accounts. I would like to try to get= a working cPanel installation of WebDNA onto this machine to be used by any= one on this list to install WebDNA into any cPanel hosting environment. &nbs= p;

If I can get WebDNA functioning on this server, I= will provide hosting for redistribution for the fresh installation of cPane= l & WebDNA for anyone needing it for a cPanel hosting company.




O= n Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke <dbrooke@euca.us> wrote:

Hey Brian... I think the gist is, it is great that you are using W= ebDNA. The list is here to try and help. Unfortunately, the users here don=E2= =80=99t always have the the time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t hold tha= t against them. Stuart is a one of a very few champions of WebDNA. He deserv= es the respect that goes with that. 

In short... us l= ong-time members will always try to help if we can. Just don=E2=80=99t F wit= h us. We have been through a lot ;-)

Cheers.
<= div>Donovan 

D. Brooke Mobile

On Sep 29, 2019, at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

FYI I NEVER MENTIONED YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! THEY ALL= ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS PLANNING ON D= OING SOMETHING TO REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE IF YOU REVIEW ALL= YOUR NOTES I SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY LI= FE EASIER ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!!

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7= :58 PM Stuart Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
I have really leaned another one of t= his life's lessons today.

As any member of this list will= may or may not know I have been an active member of this list for 20+ years= ..

During this time I have learned so much about the= use of WebDNA from people such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others tha= t have since moved on.

I have always tried hard to r= eturn the favour and as such at times have gone far and beyond the task of o= ffering help. I have enjoyed giving back to the community from which my skil= ls have grown. This I believe is the reason why I have been contracted by We= bDNA users from around the world.

I have seen many u= sers over the years with configuration problems, in particular the last few w= eeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the reason why I wrote the instructions a week= or so ago on how to set up WebDNA on a fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04 -= I even went as far as to provide an image of the same available to anyone t= hat would like it, all in the hope that WebDNA would become a quick easy sol= ution for members of this list to implement.

I had a= number of people request a copy of this image, none of whom have taken up t= he offer. One user requested that I build an image that anyone could use on a= ny platform. However this is not possible for cloud servers as each cloud pr= ovider has their own flavour of Ubuntu tuned to their hosting configuration.= The instructions that I publish will work if you follow the steps on any ho= st and/or new Ubuntu 18.0 installation.

And then al= ong came Brian Harrington. 

I must preface thi= s with the fact that everything that i have done for Brian was at no charge,= purely a gesture of good will that I extend to all members of this list.

Brian was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet= that he created. I offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hu= rdle - less than a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual se= rver) using ssh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, and h= ad not received the image that I had shared with him from DigitalOcean. So t= o make things easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t have to go backwards I si= mply completed the installation from the instructions that I had publis= hed.

Less than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner= of a shiny new Ubuntu 18.04 server complete with a working installation of W= ebDNA server that was only requiring a license number.

<= div>As you will know, if you have read the published instructions, Webmin is= also installed on the Droplet.

What happened next i= s purely comical, if I published the emails that I received and you read the= warnings that I provided, plus the repeated advice that I gave,  you w= ould see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s problems are.

=46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to /var/www/htm= l and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was 100% functional wi= th all the standard file extensions that are installed with the WebDNA insta= ller.

As an additional task I set up two Virtual Ho= sts, one on 80 the other on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so= that he could have a working reference.

However Br= ian had other plans, he wanted to create a new directory /Library/Websites t= o be the root directory of his webserver, remember this is the same person t= hat has had no experience with a Linux server, he has had experience with a M= ac server so I believed that he had a good sense of being able to manage a L= inux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99t want to use the installed Webmin, he wante= d to do all Apache configuration by uploading files with FTP however he didn= =E2=80=99t have a FTP client.

Brian, you may rememb= er the Skype message that I sent you expressing my concern that if you work o= utside the standard installation you would break it.

For the rest of the week I continued to help him, answer his questions, pr= ovide advice. All the time doing my own work that Brian=E2=80=99s emails wer= e interrupting. As I live in Sydney there were times that I was not able to a= nswer him immediately due to the 10 hour time difference.

Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) I received yet another email f= rom Brian - he had locked himself out of his server, yes, I fixed this for h= im too, repaired his non-root user with sudo privileges and advised him that= in 19 minutes time I would be leaving for the weekend.

=
So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my computer thi= s morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day yesterday to see the usu= ally quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian continuing to have issues with his= installation.

What does surprise me, and leads me t= o writing this email are comments pointed to myself by Brian such as:
<= div>"TalkList members say they will help... then they are GONE and s= uddenly don't has access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than someone s= etting you up to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D

Brian had a very large VHost= file that he moved from his Mac server to the Linux environment without any= alterations. He believes that it was easier to change the configuration of t= he Linux/Apache server than to use search and replace on his VHost file. Bri= an=E2=80=99s problems relate directly to Permissions and the relocation of h= is server root. I note that Brian has said: 
" I have no idea why Stua= rt thinks /Library/Webserver files are gonna be an issue when apache2.conf l= ist share folder and everything else.=E2=80=9D, I guess to Brian taking a= dvice from someone that has 23 operational Ubuntu 18.04 servers really d= oesn=E2=80=99t make much sense.

So Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been 100% ope= rational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the /var/www/html&nb= sp;directory and had their ownership and preferences checked, and had s= imply changed the root locations in your vhost configuration file s= imply with a search and replace with your text editor. If you listened to th= e FREE advice that you were given or you could have even asked me to do it y= ou would have had a fully functional server many days ago.
=
Now I would like to see a retraction of the ill p= laced comments that you have made about me.
 
=
Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane Software
AU= STRALIA


=




--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us


--
Brian Harrington<= /div>
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063
=
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--
Brian Harrington<= /div>
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063
=
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us<= Screen Shot 2019-10-01 at 1.36.01 AM.png><Screen Shot 2019-10-01 at 1.36.16 AM.png= >
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@we= bdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: suppor= t@webdna.us

--
Brian Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millers= port Hwy. Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029<= /div>
--------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us= --------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail-D08B19FB-2505-4005-BC37-8E410E031BFE-- . Bob Minor

DOWNLOAD WEBDNA NOW!

Top Articles:

Talk List

The WebDNA community talk-list is the best place to get some help: several hundred extremely proficient programmers with an excellent knowledge of WebDNA and an excellent spirit will deliver all the tips and tricks you can imagine...

Related Readings:

Simple way to create unique SKU (1997) RE: .html to .tpl (1998) Emailer (1997) WebSTAR 2.1 freezes my Mac (1997) all records returned. (1997) Multiple fields on 1 input (1997) # fields limited? (1997) BadSuffix with 2.1b3 cgi (1997) A quickie question (1997) Expiration of Carts (1997) Thanks for tips, more quest (1997) RE: Error reading data -1 (1997) Re:2nd WebCatalog2 Feature Request (1996) SKU lookup (1997) Emailer error 550? Never mind. (1999) Multi-Row Tables from a search. (1997) Trouble with [Math] (1998) Applescript in Webcatalog problem (1997) Nested Loops and SHOWIFs (1997) Authentication (1998)