Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington

This WebDNA talk-list message is from

2019


It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 114860
interpreted = N
texte = 2488 --Apple-Mail=_C22CE9D5-562B-44A9-BA22-6DDF21698D0E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I can certainly relate. Things have never been all in one logical place = since I ventured out beyond WebDNA. I typically have a ton of different = stuff open at once. A good site now really must use CSS, Javascript, = HTML, PHP, but then there=E2=80=99s all sorts of theme configuration = files, templates, function files & more. WordPress provides multiple = ways to edit things and each theme file might come with an entire area = for configuration that may include redundant editors for many things. One of the things that became apparent to me was that I just needed to = immerse myself in the muck for long enough to figure it all out. Doing = that made me much faster at reading and understanding code written by = others. I also quickly came to understand that there are a lot of truly = gifted coders out there who=E2=80=99s work is elegant and nuanced. So in = the middle of the, at times, overwhelming morass I kept discovering more = and more inspiration. I started to look at my job as understanding = assembling well built pieces into a cohesive and reliable whole. If I = didn=E2=80=99t make quick progress with a particular framework or = solution from one source, I would just find and try another. Things = were up and running far faster than what I was accustomed to and I = stopped getting rudely notified of any new bugs my own code contained. = New bugs were now happening to many users and there were now immediate = fixes. There are few things more difficult that giving up the control of having = a server in front of you and on your own LAN. And the obvious friction = between WebDNA and cPanel makes transitioning to the cloud far more = panic inducing. Hopefully we can find a way to make WebDNA plug and play = with cPanel. There could come a day when cloud hosting makes more sense = than local network. > On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:44 AM, Brian Harrington = wrote: >=20 > Thanks Patrick... I only host my own stuff and it's easy working on = websites right on the server so u can see instant result of your work. = Once my Mac is setup and it's usually just minutes now it seems to run = forever and is very fast and stable. I tried Digital Ocean (DO) and the = sites went don't numerous times for no reason and I was not even doing = anything on the droplet and I spent endless hours just trying to figure = out where things were on their 2 sites (admin and website) that are so = similar I got lost between them many times... And their forms I have no = idea what the input should be and they offer no examples. I would still = need my computer to build sites on and I spent a half day just = researching and trying things to accomplish that... I seen and tried = examples to modify the temperamental host file that did not work and I = ordered a switch/router through Amazon as I know that worked for me in = the past... my Desktop was a mess working on the DO project... I had = their web pages open... their admin... the terminal window... FTP = software... text editor... skype and all that just to work remotely via = FTP...? I'm fluid in HTML and WebDna and can figure out what I need done = in Javascript and CSS and that's all you needed in the past. I really = need to learn Front-End and responsive design and glad u mentioned = Wordpress that I could not install anyways on my older Mac and now = settling in on my newer one could. I'm looking at Material Design for = Bootstrap (MDB)...??? >=20 > On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 5:09 AM Patrick McCormick = > wrote: > Hey Brian - that is really weird. I have never tried multiple = ethernet connections on the same address because I just assumed that it = couldn=E2=80=99t possibly work that way. >=20 > One of the best things about cloud hosting is never ever having to = think about that sort of stuff again. Ever. Every diol of hardware is = configured redundantly. As soon as a data center gets a new server = blade installed into a rack, its components - RAM, CPU, disk, etc., are = inventoried and optimally distributed to that company=E2=80=99s = customers. There is no relationship between what server specs I buy and = any specific machines in the data center. Everything is abstracted so = that anything can fail without interrupting any services. It gets pretty = confusing but products like vSphere are what data centers use to manage = their equipment. That system just tells them how much additional CPU, = RAM & disk they need to keep up with current load and they can also buy = in bulk from Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc., if they need quick = additional capacity while they wait for delivery of physical equipment. >=20 > The other thing I learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA developers = operate at a fraction of the typical website load that other content = management systems typically use. Because WordPress comes with a back = end & pre-packaged code for themes & plugins, it really =E2=80=9Cshits = the bed=E2=80=9D in terms of cookies, variables, threads, and endless = cruft just to be able to keep track of everything. PHP settings usually = require a minimum of 2500 page variables and timeouts in excess of 180 = seconds. WordPress is a resource hog many thousands of times larger = than WebDAN simply because WebDNA is just a blinking cursor. There is = no environment for themes, plugins, and there is no content management = back end at all. You have to build all of that from scratch. >=20 > I say get rid of any responsibilities you can - especially hosting. = If WordPress can spin up a presentable website in a few clicks, complete = with back end content management interface and unique theme, then there = ought to be a relatively straight forward way to add WebDNA to that = environment so that we can build any unique functions using WebDNA = syntax and have those functions appear wherever needed within WordPress = (or, ultimately any other) CMS. >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can assign the same IP to 2 = different physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t want my clients = websites running on top of a mystery, if I can avoid it. In my case, if = I felt that anything was operating slowly, I would just send a tech = support ticket saying =E2=80=9Cit seems too slow=E2=80=9D and let them = figure it out. I=E2=80=99m done deciphering back end spooky nonsense = when there readily available, trained armies who are far better than me = & my Mac. >=20 > Dumping responsibility makes a more stable server, and that certainly = includes hosting. A managed server is fully redundant, automatically = backed up and even client billings are fully automatic - to the point = where, should a credit card get declined, the timer to automatically = disable hosting goes into effect & that client is notified by email. = The less code I write, the less chance for any problems that I might = cause. THere=E2=80=99s a huge war chest of pre-build & fully tested = code available from places like GitHub. Those represent all the people = who have encountered and solved the same problems I=E2=80=99ve run into, = but they solved it with an entire group of contributors, any one of = which are probably smarter than me. Don=E2=80=99t I owe the best = possible solutions to my clients? Then why would I screw up my = responsibility by thinking for a moment that my single mind might hold = the best answers? I=E2=80=99m pretty sure those gangs would crush me = every time. As a programmer, I tend to immediately attack every = challenge with my own code, but that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic = reaction for which my clients and I will both suffer. The correct = response is the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2=80=99s already done the best = job of solving this already?=E2=80=9D And ironically, it=E2=80=99s the = same coder=E2=80=99s ego that motivates all those programmers to show = off all that great coding ability in places like GitHub. Think of the = man years of proven, tested, free code that=E2=80=99s just sitting = there, free for the taking. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Brian Harrington > wrote: >>=20 >> I know none of you care what I have to say and some of my ideas are = off the wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache or slow = internet connections. >>=20 >> My newer (2009) more powerful Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM ram/ 4 1TB = SSD's in RAID seemed to have fast speedtest but Apache still took about = 30 seconds to deliver my web pages >> and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower was always = very quick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until suddenly it's = connection 400/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and took about 30 = seconds or more to deliver web pages. I tried every config on my router = and network settings and even tried 2 ethernet connections (different = ip's) and still slow page loads. And just now I accidentally had my two = ethernet connections at the same DHCP 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page = loads into less than half... Not sure if it matters but the remote DNS = are reversed on the 2 connections... images attached. >>=20 >> It also might create a very little Redundancy if one ethernet port = should fail... attached images.=20 >>=20 >> Note: Deleted my Digital Ocean account as page loads the few times my = sites were working there are about the same as my home connection now = and building site via FTP is a pain and slow... >>=20 >> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart Tremain = > wrote: >> Hi Patrick >>=20 >> Unfortunately you can=E2=80=99t rely on the WebDNA url(s) being = current. >>=20 >> We have found recently that there is an Apache config that needs to = be put into an override file, none of this is included in the WebDNA = Server edition installers. >>=20 >> If you want to make this happen I would concentrate on the fcgi = version as this is designed to be relevant to the domain root rather = than servicing the entire machine, so in keeping with the cPanel = concept. A user would install WebDNA or PHP (not both), that is where = WebDNA needs to go to widen the use of the language. Getting in peoples = faces is the way to go, curious users would then at least look into the = language and hopefully give it a go. >>=20 >> I can=E2=80=99t see why it could not be achieved, but then I have = never done anything more than use cPanel as a user. >>=20 >> I would really like to see this happen. >>=20 >> Patrick it may be more appropriate to change this subject to cPanel & = WebDNA >>=20 >> Kind regards >>=20 >> Stuart Tremain >> Pharoah Lane Software >> AUSTRALIA >> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McCormick > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Yes, Stuart, >>>=20 >>> Not only do I have access to the full machine, I have a 24/7 staff = that is willing to help with anything I ask them for. They have been = outstanding. It might work out great. >>>=20 >>> I know I would probably have to make some sort of configuration = utility for cPanel & make a pretty icon, but cPanle is very well = documented and I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking = a cPanel icon to the WebDNA config URL(s), once the software is properly = installed in whatever version of unix. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Stuart Tremain = > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Patrick >>>>=20 >>>> The addition of WebDNA into the app library of cPanel would be a = great boost for WebDNA.. >>>>=20 >>>> Many years ago I shopped around different hosting companies for = them to make WebDNA available on their cPanel configs - none were = willing. >>>>=20 >>>> If you have total access to your machine and are familiar with the = OS on the machine and the workings of cPanel then it would be a = worthwhile exercise to get it going. Your best bet on getting help to = achieve this would be a cPanel support group as I am pretty sure that = there is no-one using WebDNA on cPanel. >>>>=20 >>>> Long term it would be beneficial to everyone and the WebDNA = language to have WebDNA installed via cPanel. >>>>=20 >>>> I for one would be very interested in what you can achieve. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Kind regards >>>>=20 >>>> Stuart Tremain >>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McCormick = > wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> I recently upgraded a server at the hosting company I=E2=80=99ve = been using: futurehosting.com >>>>>=20 >>>>> I have a dedicated machine, second from the max size. In addition = to cPanel, that level of contract includes WHM, which is an = administration level that allows me to resell cPanel accounts. I would = like to try to get a working cPanel installation of WebDNA onto this = machine to be used by anyone on this list to install WebDNA into any = cPanel hosting environment. =20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> If I can get WebDNA functioning on this server, I will provide = hosting for redistribution for the fresh installation of cPanel & WebDNA = for anyone needing it for a cPanel hosting company. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke > wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hey Brian... I think the gist is, it is great that you are using = WebDNA. The list is here to try and help. Unfortunately, the users here = don=E2=80=99t always have the the time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t = hold that against them. Stuart is a one of a very few champions of = WebDNA. He deserves the respect that goes with that.=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> In short... us long-time members will always try to help if we = can. Just don=E2=80=99t F with us. We have been through a lot ;-) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>> Donovan=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> D. Brooke Mobile >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington = > wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> FYI I NEVER MENTIONED YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! = THEY ALL ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS = PLANNING ON DOING SOMETHING TO REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE = IF YOU REVIEW ALL YOUR NOTES I SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE = WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!! >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:58 PM Stuart Tremain = > wrote: >>>>>>> I have really leaned another one of this life's lessons today. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> As any member of this list will may or may not know I have been = an active member of this list for 20+ years. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> During this time I have learned so much about the use of WebDNA = from people such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others that have = since moved on. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I have always tried hard to return the favour and as such at = times have gone far and beyond the task of offering help. I have enjoyed = giving back to the community from which my skills have grown. This I = believe is the reason why I have been contracted by WebDNA users from = around the world. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I have seen many users over the years with configuration = problems, in particular the last few weeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the = reason why I wrote the instructions a week or so ago on how to set up = WebDNA on a fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04 - I even went as far as = to provide an image of the same available to anyone that would like it, = all in the hope that WebDNA would become a quick easy solution for = members of this list to implement. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I had a number of people request a copy of this image, none of = whom have taken up the offer. One user requested that I build an image = that anyone could use on any platform. However this is not possible for = cloud servers as each cloud provider has their own flavour of Ubuntu = tuned to their hosting configuration. The instructions that I publish = will work if you follow the steps on any host and/or new Ubuntu 18.0 = installation. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> And then along came Brian Harrington.=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I must preface this with the fact that everything that i have = done for Brian was at no charge, purely a gesture of good will that I = extend to all members of this list. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Brian was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet that he = created. I offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hurdle = - less than a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual = server) using ssh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, = and had not received the image that I had shared with him from = DigitalOcean. So to make things easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t = have to go backwards I simply completed the installation from the = instructions that I had published. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Less than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner of a shiny new = Ubuntu 18.04 server complete with a working installation of WebDNA = server that was only requiring a license number. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> As you will know, if you have read the published instructions, = Webmin is also installed on the Droplet. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> What happened next is purely comical, if I published the emails = that I received and you read the warnings that I provided, plus the = repeated advice that I gave, you would see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s = problems are. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> =46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to = /var/www/html and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was = 100% functional with all the standard file extensions that are installed = with the WebDNA installer. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> As an additional task I set up two Virtual Hosts, one on 80 the = other on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so that he could = have a working reference. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> However Brian had other plans, he wanted to create a new = directory /Library/Websites to be the root directory of his webserver, = remember this is the same person that has had no experience with a Linux = server, he has had experience with a Mac server so I believed that he = had a good sense of being able to manage a Linux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99= t want to use the installed Webmin, he wanted to do all Apache = configuration by uploading files with FTP however he didn=E2=80=99t have = a FTP client. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Brian, you may remember the Skype message that I sent you = expressing my concern that if you work outside the standard installation = you would break it. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> For the rest of the week I continued to help him, answer his = questions, provide advice. All the time doing my own work that Brian=E2=80= =99s emails were interrupting. As I live in Sydney there were times that = I was not able to answer him immediately due to the 10 hour time = difference. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) I received yet another = email from Brian - he had locked himself out of his server, yes, I fixed = this for him too, repaired his non-root user with sudo privileges and = advised him that in 19 minutes time I would be leaving for the weekend. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my = computer this morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day = yesterday to see the usually quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian = continuing to have issues with his installation. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> What does surprise me, and leads me to writing this email are = comments pointed to myself by Brian such as: >>>>>>> "TalkList members say they will help... then they are GONE and = suddenly don't has access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than = someone setting you up to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Brian had a very large VHost file that he moved from his Mac = server to the Linux environment without any alterations. He believes = that it was easier to change the configuration of the Linux/Apache = server than to use search and replace on his VHost file. Brian=E2=80=99s = problems relate directly to Permissions and the relocation of his server = root. I note that Brian has said:=20 >>>>>>> " I have no idea why Stuart thinks /Library/Webserver files are = gonna be an issue when apache2.conf list share folder and everything = else.=E2=80=9D, I guess to Brian taking advice from someone that has 23 = operational Ubuntu 18.04 servers really doesn=E2=80=99t make much sense. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> So Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been = 100% operational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the = /var/www/html directory and had their ownership and preferences checked, = and had simply changed the root locations in your vhost configuration = file simply with a search and replace with your text editor. If you = listened to the FREE advice that you were given or you could have even = asked me to do it you would have had a fully functional server many days = ago. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Now I would like to see a retraction of the ill placed comments = that you have made about me. >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Stuart Tremain >>>>>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>>>>> AUSTRALIA >>>>>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> --=20 >>>>>>> Brian Harrington >>>>>>> Auto Glass Xpress >>>>>>> 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 >>>>>>> Getzville, NY 14068 >>>>>>> (716) 861-2029 >>>>>>> www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com = ---------------------------------------= ------------------ This message is sent to you because you are = subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To = unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us = archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us = ------------------------------------------------= --------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the = mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, = E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>=20 >> --=20 >> Brian Harrington >> Auto Glass Xpress >> 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 >> Getzville, NY 14068 >> (716) 861-2029 >> www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com = ---------------------------------------= ------------------ This message is sent to you because you are = subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To = unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us = archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- This message = is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >=20 > --=20 > Brian Harrington > Auto Glass Xpress > 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 > Getzville, NY 14068 > (716) 861-2029 > www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com = ---------------------------------------= ------------------ This message is sent to you because you are = subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail=_C22CE9D5-562B-44A9-BA22-6DDF21698D0E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = can certainly relate.  Things have never been all in one logical = place since I ventured out beyond WebDNA.  I typically have a ton = of different stuff open at once.  A good site now really must use = CSS, Javascript, HTML, PHP, but then there=E2=80=99s all sorts of theme = configuration files, templates, function files & more. =  WordPress provides multiple ways to edit things and each theme = file might come with an entire area for configuration that may include = redundant editors for many things.

One of the things that became apparent = to me was that I just needed to immerse myself in the muck for long = enough to figure it all out.  Doing that made me much faster at = reading and understanding code written by others.  I also quickly = came to understand that there are a lot of truly gifted coders out there = who=E2=80=99s work is elegant and nuanced. So in the middle of the, at = times, overwhelming morass I kept discovering more and more inspiration. = I started to look at my job as understanding assembling well built = pieces into a cohesive and reliable whole. If I didn=E2=80=99t make = quick progress with a particular framework or solution from one source, = I would just find and try another.  Things were up and running far = faster than what I was accustomed to and I stopped getting rudely = notified of any new bugs my own code contained.  New bugs were now = happening to many users and there were now immediate fixes.

There are few things = more difficult that giving up the control of having a server in front of = you and on your own LAN. And the obvious friction between WebDNA and = cPanel makes transitioning to the cloud far more panic inducing. = Hopefully we can find a way to make WebDNA plug and play with cPanel. =  There could come a day when cloud hosting makes more sense than = local network.

On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:44 AM, Brian Harrington = <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Patrick... I only host my own stuff and it's easy = working on websites right on the server so u can see instant result of = your work. Once my Mac is setup and it's usually just minutes now it = seems to run forever and is very fast and stable. I tried Digital Ocean = (DO) and the sites went don't numerous times for no reason and I was not = even doing anything on the droplet and I spent endless hours just trying = to figure out where things were on their 2 sites (admin and website) = that are so similar I got lost between them many times... And their = forms I have no idea what the input should be and they offer no = examples. I would still need my computer to build sites on and I spent a = half day just researching and trying things  to = accomplish that... I seen and tried examples to modify the = temperamental host file that did not work and I ordered a switch/router = through Amazon as I know that worked for me in the past... my Desktop = was a mess working on the DO project... I had their web pages open... = their admin... the terminal window... FTP software... text editor... = skype and all that just to work remotely via FTP...? I'm fluid in HTML = and WebDna and can figure out what I need done in Javascript and CSS and = that's all you needed in the past. I really need to learn Front-End and = responsive design and glad u mentioned Wordpress that I could not = install anyways on my older Mac and now settling in on my newer one = could. I'm looking at Material Design for Bootstrap (MDB)...???

On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 5:09 AM Patrick McCormick = <duganmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Brian - that is really weird.  I have = never tried multiple ethernet connections on the same address because I = just assumed that it couldn=E2=80=99t possibly work that way.

One of the best things = about cloud hosting is never ever having to think about that sort of = stuff again. Ever.  Every diol of hardware is configured = redundantly.  As soon as a data center gets a new server blade = installed into a rack, its components - RAM, CPU, disk, etc., are = inventoried and optimally distributed to that company=E2=80=99s = customers.  There is no relationship between what server specs I = buy and any specific machines in the data center. Everything is = abstracted so that anything can fail without interrupting any services. = It gets pretty confusing but products like vSphere are what data centers = use to manage their equipment.  That system just tells them how = much additional CPU, RAM & disk they need to keep up with current = load and they can also buy in bulk from Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc., = if they need quick additional capacity while they wait for delivery of = physical equipment.

The other thing I learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA = developers operate at a fraction of the typical website load that other = content management systems typically use.  Because WordPress comes = with a back end & pre-packaged code for themes & plugins, it = really =E2=80=9Cshits the bed=E2=80=9D in terms of cookies, variables, = threads, and endless cruft just to be able to keep track of = everything.  PHP settings usually require a minimum of 2500 page = variables and timeouts in excess of 180 seconds.  WordPress is a = resource hog many thousands of times larger than WebDAN simply because = WebDNA is just a blinking cursor.  There is no environment for = themes, plugins, and there is no content management back end at = all.  You have to build all of that from scratch.

I say get rid of any = responsibilities you can - especially hosting.  If WordPress can = spin up a presentable website in a few clicks, complete with back end = content management interface and unique theme, then there ought to be a = relatively straight forward way to add WebDNA to that environment so = that we can build any unique functions using WebDNA syntax and have = those functions appear wherever needed within WordPress (or, ultimately = any other) CMS.

I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can assign the same IP to = 2 different physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t want my clients = websites running on top of a mystery, if I can avoid it.  In my = case, if I felt that anything was operating slowly, I would just send a = tech support ticket saying =E2=80=9Cit seems too slow=E2=80=9D and let = them figure it out. I=E2=80=99m done deciphering back end spooky = nonsense when there readily available, trained armies who are far better = than me & my Mac.

Dumping responsibility makes a more stable server, and that = certainly includes hosting.  A managed server is fully redundant, = automatically backed up and even client billings are fully automatic - = to the point where, should a credit card get declined, the timer to = automatically disable hosting goes into effect & that client is = notified by email.  The less code I write, the less chance for any = problems that I might cause.  THere=E2=80=99s a huge war chest of = pre-build & fully tested code available from places like = GitHub.  Those represent all the people who have encountered and = solved the same problems I=E2=80=99ve run into, but they solved it with = an entire group of contributors, any one of which are probably smarter = than me.  Don=E2=80=99t I owe the best possible solutions to my = clients? Then why would I screw up my responsibility by thinking for a = moment that my single mind might hold the best answers?  I=E2=80=99m = pretty sure those gangs would crush me every time. As a programmer, I = tend to immediately attack every challenge with my own code, but = that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic reaction for which my clients and = I will both suffer. The correct response is the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2= =80=99s already done the best job of solving this already?=E2=80=9D And = ironically, it=E2=80=99s the same coder=E2=80=99s ego that motivates all = those programmers to show off all that great coding ability in places = like GitHub. Think of the man years of proven, tested, free code = that=E2=80=99s just sitting there, free for the taking.




On Oct 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, = Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> = wrote:

I = know none of you care what I have to say and some of my ideas are off = the wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache or slow = internet connections.

My newer (2009) more powerful Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM = ram/ 4 1TB SSD's in RAID seemed to have fast speedtest but Apache still = took about 30 seconds to deliver my web pages
 and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower = was always very quick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until = suddenly it's connection 400/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and = took about 30 seconds or more to deliver web pages. I tried every config = on my router and network settings and even tried 2 ethernet connections = (different ip's) and still slow page loads. And just now I = accidentally had my two ethernet connections at the same DHCP = 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page loads into less than half... Not sure if = it matters but the remote DNS are reversed on the 2 connections... = images attached.

It also might create a very little Redundancy if one ethernet port = should fail... attached images. 

Note: Deleted my Digital Ocean account = as page loads the few times my sites were working there are about the = same as my home connection now and building site via FTP is a pain and = slow...

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart = Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
Hi Patrick

Unfortunately you = can=E2=80=99t rely on the WebDNA url(s) being current.

We have found recently = that there is an Apache config that needs to be put into an override = file, none of this is included in the WebDNA Server edition = installers.

If = you want to make this happen I would concentrate on the fcgi version as = this is designed to be relevant to the domain root rather than servicing = the entire machine, so in keeping with the cPanel concept. A user would = install WebDNA or PHP (not both), that is where WebDNA needs to go to = widen the use of the language. Getting in peoples faces is the way to = go, curious users would then at least look into the language and = hopefully give it a go.

I can=E2=80=99t see why it could not be achieved, but then I = have never done anything more than use cPanel as a user.

I would really like to = see this happen.

Patrick it may be more appropriate to change this subject to = cPanel & WebDNA

Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane Software
AUSTRALIA







On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McCormick <duganmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, Stuart,
Not only do I have access to the full = machine, I have a 24/7 staff that is willing to help with anything I ask = them for.  They have been outstanding.  It might work out = great.

I know = I would probably have to make some sort of configuration utility for = cPanel & make a pretty icon, but cPanle is very well documented and = I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking a cPanel icon = to the WebDNA config URL(s), once the software is properly installed in = whatever version of unix.



On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, = Stuart Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> = wrote:

Hi = Patrick

The addition = of WebDNA into the app library of cPanel would be a great boost for = WebDNA..

Many = years ago I shopped around different hosting companies for them to make = WebDNA available on their cPanel configs - none were willing.

If you have total access = to your machine and are familiar with the OS on the machine and the = workings of cPanel then it would be a worthwhile exercise to get it = going. Your best bet on getting help to achieve this would be a cPanel = support group as I am pretty sure that there is no-one using WebDNA on = cPanel.

Long = term it would be beneficial to everyone and the WebDNA language to have = WebDNA installed via cPanel.

I for one would be very interested in = what you can achieve.


Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane Software
AUSTRALIA







On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McCormick <duganmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

I recently upgraded a server = at the hosting company I=E2=80=99ve been using:  futurehosting.com

I have a dedicated machine, second from the max size.  = In addition to cPanel, that level of contract includes WHM, which is an = administration level that allows me to resell cPanel accounts. I would = like to try to get a working cPanel installation of WebDNA onto this = machine to be used by anyone on this list to install WebDNA into any = cPanel hosting environment.  

If I can get WebDNA functioning on this = server, I will provide hosting for redistribution for the fresh = installation of cPanel & WebDNA for anyone needing it for a cPanel = hosting company.




On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke <dbrooke@euca.us> wrote:

Hey Brian... I think the gist = is, it is great that you are using WebDNA. The list is here to try and = help. Unfortunately, the users here don=E2=80=99t always have the the = time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t hold that against them. Stuart = is a one of a very few champions of WebDNA. He deserves the respect that = goes with that. 

In short... us long-time members will always try to help if = we can. Just don=E2=80=99t F with us. We have been through a lot = ;-)

Cheers.
Donovan 

D. Brooke = Mobile

On Sep 29, 2019, = at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:

FYI I NEVER MENTIONED = YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! THEY ALL ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE = CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS PLANNING ON DOING SOMETHING TO = REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE IF YOU REVIEW ALL YOUR NOTES I = SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER = ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!!

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:58 PM Stuart Tremain = <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
I have really leaned = another one of this life's lessons today.

As any member of this list will may or = may not know I have been an active member of this list for 20+ = years.

During = this time I have learned so much about the use of WebDNA from people = such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others that have since moved = on.

I have = always tried hard to return the favour and as such at times have gone = far and beyond the task of offering help. I have enjoyed giving back to = the community from which my skills have grown. This I believe is the = reason why I have been contracted by WebDNA users from around the = world.

I have = seen many users over the years with configuration problems, in = particular the last few weeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the reason why I = wrote the instructions a week or so ago on how to set up WebDNA on a = fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04 - I even went as far as to provide an = image of the same available to anyone that would like it, all in the = hope that WebDNA would become a quick easy solution for members of this = list to implement.

I had a number of people request a copy of this image, none = of whom have taken up the offer. One user requested that I build an = image that anyone could use on any platform. However this is not = possible for cloud servers as each cloud provider has their own flavour = of Ubuntu tuned to their hosting configuration. The instructions that I = publish will work if you follow the steps on any host and/or new Ubuntu = 18.0 installation.

And then along came Brian Harrington. 

I must preface this with = the fact that everything that i have done for Brian was at no charge, = purely a gesture of good will that I extend to all members of this = list.

Brian = was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet that he created. I = offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hurdle - less than = a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual server) using = ssh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, and had not = received the image that I had shared with him from DigitalOcean. So to = make things easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t have to go backwards I = simply completed the installation from the instructions that I had = published.

Less = than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner of a shiny new Ubuntu 18.04 = server complete with a working installation of WebDNA server that was = only requiring a license number.

As you will know, if you have read the = published instructions, Webmin is also installed on the = Droplet.

What = happened next is purely comical, if I published the emails that I = received and you read the warnings that I provided, plus the repeated = advice that I gave,  you would see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s = problems are.

=46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to = /var/www/html and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was = 100% functional with all the standard file extensions that are installed = with the WebDNA installer.

As an additional task I set up two Virtual Hosts, one on 80 = the other on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so that he = could have a working reference.

However Brian had other plans, he = wanted to create a new directory /Library/Websites to be the root = directory of his webserver, remember this is the same person that has = had no experience with a Linux server, he has had experience with a Mac = server so I believed that he had a good sense of being able to manage a = Linux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99t want to use the installed Webmin, he = wanted to do all Apache configuration by uploading files with FTP = however he didn=E2=80=99t have a FTP client.

Brian, you may remember the Skype = message that I sent you expressing my concern that if you work outside = the standard installation you would break it.

For the rest of the week I continued to = help him, answer his questions, provide advice. All the time doing my = own work that Brian=E2=80=99s emails were interrupting. As I live in = Sydney there were times that I was not able to answer him immediately = due to the 10 hour time difference.

Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) = I received yet another email from Brian - he had locked himself out of = his server, yes, I fixed this for him too, repaired his non-root user = with sudo privileges and advised him that in 19 minutes time I would be = leaving for the weekend.

So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my = computer this morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day = yesterday to see the usually quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian = continuing to have issues with his installation.

What does surprise me, and leads me to = writing this email are comments pointed to myself by Brian such = as:
"TalkList = members say they will help... then they are GONE and suddenly don't has = access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than someone setting you up = to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D

Brian had a very large VHost file that he = moved from his Mac server to the Linux environment without any = alterations. He believes that it was easier to change the configuration = of the Linux/Apache server than to use search and replace on his VHost = file. Brian=E2=80=99s problems relate directly to Permissions and the = relocation of his server root. I note that Brian has = said: 
" I have no idea why Stuart thinks = /Library/Webserver files are gonna be an issue when apache2.conf list = share folder and everything else.=E2=80=9D, I guess to Brian taking = advice from someone that has 23 operational Ubuntu 18.04 servers = really doesn=E2=80=99t make much sense.

So= Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been 100% = operational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the = /var/www/html directory and had their ownership and preferences = checked, and had simply changed the root locations in = your vhost configuration file simply with a search and replace with = your text editor. If you listened to the FREE advice that you were given = or you could have even asked me to do it you would have had a fully = functional server many days ago.

Now I would like = to see a retraction of the ill placed comments that you have made about = me.
 
Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane = Software
AUSTRALIA
webdna@plsoftware.com.au







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--
Brian Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. = Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029
www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com
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--
Brian Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. = Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029
www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com
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--
Brian = Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) = 861-2029
www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com
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= --------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail=_C22CE9D5-562B-44A9-BA22-6DDF21698D0E-- . Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:

    
  1. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  2. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  3. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  4. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Bob Minor 2019)
  5. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  6. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  7. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  8. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Stuart Tremain 2019)
  9. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  10. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Stuart Tremain 2019)
  11. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  12. RE: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington ("Scott @ Itsula" 2019)
  13. RE: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington ("Scott @ Itsula" 2019)
  14. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  15. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  16. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  17. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Patrick McCormick 2019)
  18. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Donovan Brooke 2019)
  19. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Bob Minor 2019)
  20. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  21. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  22. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  23. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  24. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  25. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Brian Harrington 2019)
  26. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  27. RE: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington ("Scott @ Itsula" 2019)
  28. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (WebDNA Solutions 2019)
  29. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (H - Powerpalle 2019)
  30. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Bob Minor 2019)
  31. Re: [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Donovan Brooke 2019)
  32. [WebDNA] Brian Harrington (Stuart Tremain 2019)
2488 --Apple-Mail=_C22CE9D5-562B-44A9-BA22-6DDF21698D0E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I can certainly relate. Things have never been all in one logical place = since I ventured out beyond WebDNA. I typically have a ton of different = stuff open at once. A good site now really must use CSS, Javascript, = HTML, PHP, but then there=E2=80=99s all sorts of theme configuration = files, templates, function files & more. WordPress provides multiple = ways to edit things and each theme file might come with an entire area = for configuration that may include redundant editors for many things. One of the things that became apparent to me was that I just needed to = immerse myself in the muck for long enough to figure it all out. Doing = that made me much faster at reading and understanding code written by = others. I also quickly came to understand that there are a lot of truly = gifted coders out there who=E2=80=99s work is elegant and nuanced. So in = the middle of the, at times, overwhelming morass I kept discovering more = and more inspiration. I started to look at my job as understanding = assembling well built pieces into a cohesive and reliable whole. If I = didn=E2=80=99t make quick progress with a particular framework or = solution from one source, I would just find and try another. Things = were up and running far faster than what I was accustomed to and I = stopped getting rudely notified of any new bugs my own code contained. = New bugs were now happening to many users and there were now immediate = fixes. There are few things more difficult that giving up the control of having = a server in front of you and on your own LAN. And the obvious friction = between WebDNA and cPanel makes transitioning to the cloud far more = panic inducing. Hopefully we can find a way to make WebDNA plug and play = with cPanel. There could come a day when cloud hosting makes more sense = than local network. > On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:44 AM, Brian Harrington = wrote: >=20 > Thanks Patrick... I only host my own stuff and it's easy working on = websites right on the server so u can see instant result of your work. = Once my Mac is setup and it's usually just minutes now it seems to run = forever and is very fast and stable. I tried Digital Ocean (DO) and the = sites went don't numerous times for no reason and I was not even doing = anything on the droplet and I spent endless hours just trying to figure = out where things were on their 2 sites (admin and website) that are so = similar I got lost between them many times... And their forms I have no = idea what the input should be and they offer no examples. I would still = need my computer to build sites on and I spent a half day just = researching and trying things to accomplish that... I seen and tried = examples to modify the temperamental host file that did not work and I = ordered a switch/router through Amazon as I know that worked for me in = the past... my Desktop was a mess working on the DO project... I had = their web pages open... their admin... the terminal window... FTP = software... text editor... skype and all that just to work remotely via = FTP...? I'm fluid in HTML and WebDna and can figure out what I need done = in Javascript and CSS and that's all you needed in the past. I really = need to learn Front-End and responsive design and glad u mentioned = Wordpress that I could not install anyways on my older Mac and now = settling in on my newer one could. I'm looking at Material Design for = Bootstrap (MDB)...??? >=20 > On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 5:09 AM Patrick McCormick = > wrote: > Hey Brian - that is really weird. I have never tried multiple = ethernet connections on the same address because I just assumed that it = couldn=E2=80=99t possibly work that way. >=20 > One of the best things about cloud hosting is never ever having to = think about that sort of stuff again. Ever. Every diol of hardware is = configured redundantly. As soon as a data center gets a new server = blade installed into a rack, its components - RAM, CPU, disk, etc., are = inventoried and optimally distributed to that company=E2=80=99s = customers. There is no relationship between what server specs I buy and = any specific machines in the data center. Everything is abstracted so = that anything can fail without interrupting any services. It gets pretty = confusing but products like vSphere are what data centers use to manage = their equipment. That system just tells them how much additional CPU, = RAM & disk they need to keep up with current load and they can also buy = in bulk from Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc., if they need quick = additional capacity while they wait for delivery of physical equipment. >=20 > The other thing I learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA developers = operate at a fraction of the typical website load that other content = management systems typically use. Because WordPress comes with a back = end & pre-packaged code for themes & plugins, it really =E2=80=9Cshits = the bed=E2=80=9D in terms of cookies, variables, threads, and endless = cruft just to be able to keep track of everything. PHP settings usually = require a minimum of 2500 page variables and timeouts in excess of 180 = seconds. WordPress is a resource hog many thousands of times larger = than WebDAN simply because WebDNA is just a blinking cursor. There is = no environment for themes, plugins, and there is no content management = back end at all. You have to build all of that from scratch. >=20 > I say get rid of any responsibilities you can - especially hosting. = If WordPress can spin up a presentable website in a few clicks, complete = with back end content management interface and unique theme, then there = ought to be a relatively straight forward way to add WebDNA to that = environment so that we can build any unique functions using WebDNA = syntax and have those functions appear wherever needed within WordPress = (or, ultimately any other) CMS. >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can assign the same IP to 2 = different physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t want my clients = websites running on top of a mystery, if I can avoid it. In my case, if = I felt that anything was operating slowly, I would just send a tech = support ticket saying =E2=80=9Cit seems too slow=E2=80=9D and let them = figure it out. I=E2=80=99m done deciphering back end spooky nonsense = when there readily available, trained armies who are far better than me = & my Mac. >=20 > Dumping responsibility makes a more stable server, and that certainly = includes hosting. A managed server is fully redundant, automatically = backed up and even client billings are fully automatic - to the point = where, should a credit card get declined, the timer to automatically = disable hosting goes into effect & that client is notified by email. = The less code I write, the less chance for any problems that I might = cause. THere=E2=80=99s a huge war chest of pre-build & fully tested = code available from places like GitHub. Those represent all the people = who have encountered and solved the same problems I=E2=80=99ve run into, = but they solved it with an entire group of contributors, any one of = which are probably smarter than me. Don=E2=80=99t I owe the best = possible solutions to my clients? Then why would I screw up my = responsibility by thinking for a moment that my single mind might hold = the best answers? I=E2=80=99m pretty sure those gangs would crush me = every time. As a programmer, I tend to immediately attack every = challenge with my own code, but that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic = reaction for which my clients and I will both suffer. The correct = response is the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2=80=99s already done the best = job of solving this already?=E2=80=9D And ironically, it=E2=80=99s the = same coder=E2=80=99s ego that motivates all those programmers to show = off all that great coding ability in places like GitHub. Think of the = man years of proven, tested, free code that=E2=80=99s just sitting = there, free for the taking. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Brian Harrington > wrote: >>=20 >> I know none of you care what I have to say and some of my ideas are = off the wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache or slow = internet connections. >>=20 >> My newer (2009) more powerful Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM ram/ 4 1TB = SSD's in RAID seemed to have fast speedtest but Apache still took about = 30 seconds to deliver my web pages >> and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower was always = very quick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until suddenly it's = connection 400/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and took about 30 = seconds or more to deliver web pages. I tried every config on my router = and network settings and even tried 2 ethernet connections (different = ip's) and still slow page loads. And just now I accidentally had my two = ethernet connections at the same DHCP 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page = loads into less than half... Not sure if it matters but the remote DNS = are reversed on the 2 connections... images attached. >>=20 >> It also might create a very little Redundancy if one ethernet port = should fail... attached images.=20 >>=20 >> Note: Deleted my Digital Ocean account as page loads the few times my = sites were working there are about the same as my home connection now = and building site via FTP is a pain and slow... >>=20 >> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart Tremain = > wrote: >> Hi Patrick >>=20 >> Unfortunately you can=E2=80=99t rely on the WebDNA url(s) being = current. >>=20 >> We have found recently that there is an Apache config that needs to = be put into an override file, none of this is included in the WebDNA = Server edition installers. >>=20 >> If you want to make this happen I would concentrate on the fcgi = version as this is designed to be relevant to the domain root rather = than servicing the entire machine, so in keeping with the cPanel = concept. A user would install WebDNA or PHP (not both), that is where = WebDNA needs to go to widen the use of the language. Getting in peoples = faces is the way to go, curious users would then at least look into the = language and hopefully give it a go. >>=20 >> I can=E2=80=99t see why it could not be achieved, but then I have = never done anything more than use cPanel as a user. >>=20 >> I would really like to see this happen. >>=20 >> Patrick it may be more appropriate to change this subject to cPanel & = WebDNA >>=20 >> Kind regards >>=20 >> Stuart Tremain >> Pharoah Lane Software >> AUSTRALIA >> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McCormick > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Yes, Stuart, >>>=20 >>> Not only do I have access to the full machine, I have a 24/7 staff = that is willing to help with anything I ask them for. They have been = outstanding. It might work out great. >>>=20 >>> I know I would probably have to make some sort of configuration = utility for cPanel & make a pretty icon, but cPanle is very well = documented and I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking = a cPanel icon to the WebDNA config URL(s), once the software is properly = installed in whatever version of unix. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Stuart Tremain = > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Patrick >>>>=20 >>>> The addition of WebDNA into the app library of cPanel would be a = great boost for WebDNA.. >>>>=20 >>>> Many years ago I shopped around different hosting companies for = them to make WebDNA available on their cPanel configs - none were = willing. >>>>=20 >>>> If you have total access to your machine and are familiar with the = OS on the machine and the workings of cPanel then it would be a = worthwhile exercise to get it going. Your best bet on getting help to = achieve this would be a cPanel support group as I am pretty sure that = there is no-one using WebDNA on cPanel. >>>>=20 >>>> Long term it would be beneficial to everyone and the WebDNA = language to have WebDNA installed via cPanel. >>>>=20 >>>> I for one would be very interested in what you can achieve. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Kind regards >>>>=20 >>>> Stuart Tremain >>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McCormick = > wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> I recently upgraded a server at the hosting company I=E2=80=99ve = been using: futurehosting.com >>>>>=20 >>>>> I have a dedicated machine, second from the max size. In addition = to cPanel, that level of contract includes WHM, which is an = administration level that allows me to resell cPanel accounts. I would = like to try to get a working cPanel installation of WebDNA onto this = machine to be used by anyone on this list to install WebDNA into any = cPanel hosting environment. =20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> If I can get WebDNA functioning on this server, I will provide = hosting for redistribution for the fresh installation of cPanel & WebDNA = for anyone needing it for a cPanel hosting company. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke > wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hey Brian... I think the gist is, it is great that you are using = WebDNA. The list is here to try and help. Unfortunately, the users here = don=E2=80=99t always have the the time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t = hold that against them. Stuart is a one of a very few champions of = WebDNA. He deserves the respect that goes with that.=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> In short... us long-time members will always try to help if we = can. Just don=E2=80=99t F with us. We have been through a lot ;-) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>> Donovan=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> D. Brooke Mobile >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington = > wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> FYI I NEVER MENTIONED YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! = THEY ALL ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS = PLANNING ON DOING SOMETHING TO REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE = IF YOU REVIEW ALL YOUR NOTES I SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE = WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!! >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:58 PM Stuart Tremain = > wrote: >>>>>>> I have really leaned another one of this life's lessons today. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> As any member of this list will may or may not know I have been = an active member of this list for 20+ years. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> During this time I have learned so much about the use of WebDNA = from people such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others that have = since moved on. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I have always tried hard to return the favour and as such at = times have gone far and beyond the task of offering help. I have enjoyed = giving back to the community from which my skills have grown. This I = believe is the reason why I have been contracted by WebDNA users from = around the world. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I have seen many users over the years with configuration = problems, in particular the last few weeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the = reason why I wrote the instructions a week or so ago on how to set up = WebDNA on a fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04 - I even went as far as = to provide an image of the same available to anyone that would like it, = all in the hope that WebDNA would become a quick easy solution for = members of this list to implement. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I had a number of people request a copy of this image, none of = whom have taken up the offer. One user requested that I build an image = that anyone could use on any platform. However this is not possible for = cloud servers as each cloud provider has their own flavour of Ubuntu = tuned to their hosting configuration. The instructions that I publish = will work if you follow the steps on any host and/or new Ubuntu 18.0 = installation. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> And then along came Brian Harrington.=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I must preface this with the fact that everything that i have = done for Brian was at no charge, purely a gesture of good will that I = extend to all members of this list. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Brian was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet that he = created. I offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hurdle = - less than a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual = server) using ssh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, = and had not received the image that I had shared with him from = DigitalOcean. So to make things easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t = have to go backwards I simply completed the installation from the = instructions that I had published. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Less than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner of a shiny new = Ubuntu 18.04 server complete with a working installation of WebDNA = server that was only requiring a license number. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> As you will know, if you have read the published instructions, = Webmin is also installed on the Droplet. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> What happened next is purely comical, if I published the emails = that I received and you read the warnings that I provided, plus the = repeated advice that I gave, you would see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s = problems are. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> =46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to = /var/www/html and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was = 100% functional with all the standard file extensions that are installed = with the WebDNA installer. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> As an additional task I set up two Virtual Hosts, one on 80 the = other on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so that he could = have a working reference. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> However Brian had other plans, he wanted to create a new = directory /Library/Websites to be the root directory of his webserver, = remember this is the same person that has had no experience with a Linux = server, he has had experience with a Mac server so I believed that he = had a good sense of being able to manage a Linux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99= t want to use the installed Webmin, he wanted to do all Apache = configuration by uploading files with FTP however he didn=E2=80=99t have = a FTP client. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Brian, you may remember the Skype message that I sent you = expressing my concern that if you work outside the standard installation = you would break it. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> For the rest of the week I continued to help him, answer his = questions, provide advice. All the time doing my own work that Brian=E2=80= =99s emails were interrupting. As I live in Sydney there were times that = I was not able to answer him immediately due to the 10 hour time = difference. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) I received yet another = email from Brian - he had locked himself out of his server, yes, I fixed = this for him too, repaired his non-root user with sudo privileges and = advised him that in 19 minutes time I would be leaving for the weekend. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my = computer this morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day = yesterday to see the usually quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian = continuing to have issues with his installation. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> What does surprise me, and leads me to writing this email are = comments pointed to myself by Brian such as: >>>>>>> "TalkList members say they will help... then they are GONE and = suddenly don't has access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than = someone setting you up to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Brian had a very large VHost file that he moved from his Mac = server to the Linux environment without any alterations. He believes = that it was easier to change the configuration of the Linux/Apache = server than to use search and replace on his VHost file. Brian=E2=80=99s = problems relate directly to Permissions and the relocation of his server = root. I note that Brian has said:=20 >>>>>>> " I have no idea why Stuart thinks /Library/Webserver files are = gonna be an issue when apache2.conf list share folder and everything = else.=E2=80=9D, I guess to Brian taking advice from someone that has 23 = operational Ubuntu 18.04 servers really doesn=E2=80=99t make much sense. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> So Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been = 100% operational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the = /var/www/html directory and had their ownership and preferences checked, = and had simply changed the root locations in your vhost configuration = file simply with a search and replace with your text editor. If you = listened to the FREE advice that you were given or you could have even = asked me to do it you would have had a fully functional server many days = ago. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Now I would like to see a retraction of the ill placed comments = that you have made about me. >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Stuart Tremain >>>>>>> Pharoah Lane Software >>>>>>> AUSTRALIA >>>>>>> webdna@plsoftware.com.au >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> --=20 >>>>>>> Brian Harrington >>>>>>> Auto Glass Xpress >>>>>>> 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 >>>>>>> Getzville, NY 14068 >>>>>>> (716) 861-2029 >>>>>>> www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com = ---------------------------------------= ------------------ This message is sent to you because you are = subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To = unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us = archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us = ------------------------------------------------= --------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the = mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, = E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >> --------------------------------------------------------- This = message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >>=20 >> --=20 >> Brian Harrington >> Auto Glass Xpress >> 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 >> Getzville, NY 14068 >> (716) 861-2029 >> www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com = ---------------------------------------= ------------------ This message is sent to you because you are = subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To = unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us = archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- This message = is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list = talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: = http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: = support@webdna.us >=20 > --=20 > Brian Harrington > Auto Glass Xpress > 2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063 > Getzville, NY 14068 > (716) 861-2029 > www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com = ---------------------------------------= ------------------ This message is sent to you because you are = subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: = talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 = Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail=_C22CE9D5-562B-44A9-BA22-6DDF21698D0E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = can certainly relate.  Things have never been all in one logical = place since I ventured out beyond WebDNA.  I typically have a ton = of different stuff open at once.  A good site now really must use = CSS, Javascript, HTML, PHP, but then there=E2=80=99s all sorts of theme = configuration files, templates, function files & more. =  WordPress provides multiple ways to edit things and each theme = file might come with an entire area for configuration that may include = redundant editors for many things.

One of the things that became apparent = to me was that I just needed to immerse myself in the muck for long = enough to figure it all out.  Doing that made me much faster at = reading and understanding code written by others.  I also quickly = came to understand that there are a lot of truly gifted coders out there = who=E2=80=99s work is elegant and nuanced. So in the middle of the, at = times, overwhelming morass I kept discovering more and more inspiration. = I started to look at my job as understanding assembling well built = pieces into a cohesive and reliable whole. If I didn=E2=80=99t make = quick progress with a particular framework or solution from one source, = I would just find and try another.  Things were up and running far = faster than what I was accustomed to and I stopped getting rudely = notified of any new bugs my own code contained.  New bugs were now = happening to many users and there were now immediate fixes.

There are few things = more difficult that giving up the control of having a server in front of = you and on your own LAN. And the obvious friction between WebDNA and = cPanel makes transitioning to the cloud far more panic inducing. = Hopefully we can find a way to make WebDNA plug and play with cPanel. =  There could come a day when cloud hosting makes more sense than = local network.

On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:44 AM, Brian Harrington = <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Patrick... I only host my own stuff and it's easy = working on websites right on the server so u can see instant result of = your work. Once my Mac is setup and it's usually just minutes now it = seems to run forever and is very fast and stable. I tried Digital Ocean = (DO) and the sites went don't numerous times for no reason and I was not = even doing anything on the droplet and I spent endless hours just trying = to figure out where things were on their 2 sites (admin and website) = that are so similar I got lost between them many times... And their = forms I have no idea what the input should be and they offer no = examples. I would still need my computer to build sites on and I spent a = half day just researching and trying things  to = accomplish that... I seen and tried examples to modify the = temperamental host file that did not work and I ordered a switch/router = through Amazon as I know that worked for me in the past... my Desktop = was a mess working on the DO project... I had their web pages open... = their admin... the terminal window... FTP software... text editor... = skype and all that just to work remotely via FTP...? I'm fluid in HTML = and WebDna and can figure out what I need done in Javascript and CSS and = that's all you needed in the past. I really need to learn Front-End and = responsive design and glad u mentioned Wordpress that I could not = install anyways on my older Mac and now settling in on my newer one = could. I'm looking at Material Design for Bootstrap (MDB)...???

On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 5:09 AM Patrick McCormick = <duganmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Brian - that is really weird.  I have = never tried multiple ethernet connections on the same address because I = just assumed that it couldn=E2=80=99t possibly work that way.

One of the best things = about cloud hosting is never ever having to think about that sort of = stuff again. Ever.  Every diol of hardware is configured = redundantly.  As soon as a data center gets a new server blade = installed into a rack, its components - RAM, CPU, disk, etc., are = inventoried and optimally distributed to that company=E2=80=99s = customers.  There is no relationship between what server specs I = buy and any specific machines in the data center. Everything is = abstracted so that anything can fail without interrupting any services. = It gets pretty confusing but products like vSphere are what data centers = use to manage their equipment.  That system just tells them how = much additional CPU, RAM & disk they need to keep up with current = load and they can also buy in bulk from Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc., = if they need quick additional capacity while they wait for delivery of = physical equipment.

The other thing I learned by using WordPress is that WebDNA = developers operate at a fraction of the typical website load that other = content management systems typically use.  Because WordPress comes = with a back end & pre-packaged code for themes & plugins, it = really =E2=80=9Cshits the bed=E2=80=9D in terms of cookies, variables, = threads, and endless cruft just to be able to keep track of = everything.  PHP settings usually require a minimum of 2500 page = variables and timeouts in excess of 180 seconds.  WordPress is a = resource hog many thousands of times larger than WebDAN simply because = WebDNA is just a blinking cursor.  There is no environment for = themes, plugins, and there is no content management back end at = all.  You have to build all of that from scratch.

I say get rid of any = responsibilities you can - especially hosting.  If WordPress can = spin up a presentable website in a few clicks, complete with back end = content management interface and unique theme, then there ought to be a = relatively straight forward way to add WebDNA to that environment so = that we can build any unique functions using WebDNA syntax and have = those functions appear wherever needed within WordPress (or, ultimately = any other) CMS.

I don=E2=80=99t know why or how Mac can assign the same IP to = 2 different physical ports, but I wouldn=E2=80=99t want my clients = websites running on top of a mystery, if I can avoid it.  In my = case, if I felt that anything was operating slowly, I would just send a = tech support ticket saying =E2=80=9Cit seems too slow=E2=80=9D and let = them figure it out. I=E2=80=99m done deciphering back end spooky = nonsense when there readily available, trained armies who are far better = than me & my Mac.

Dumping responsibility makes a more stable server, and that = certainly includes hosting.  A managed server is fully redundant, = automatically backed up and even client billings are fully automatic - = to the point where, should a credit card get declined, the timer to = automatically disable hosting goes into effect & that client is = notified by email.  The less code I write, the less chance for any = problems that I might cause.  THere=E2=80=99s a huge war chest of = pre-build & fully tested code available from places like = GitHub.  Those represent all the people who have encountered and = solved the same problems I=E2=80=99ve run into, but they solved it with = an entire group of contributors, any one of which are probably smarter = than me.  Don=E2=80=99t I owe the best possible solutions to my = clients? Then why would I screw up my responsibility by thinking for a = moment that my single mind might hold the best answers?  I=E2=80=99m = pretty sure those gangs would crush me every time. As a programmer, I = tend to immediately attack every challenge with my own code, but = that=E2=80=99s a hopelessly egotistic reaction for which my clients and = I will both suffer. The correct response is the question - =E2=80=9CWho=E2= =80=99s already done the best job of solving this already?=E2=80=9D And = ironically, it=E2=80=99s the same coder=E2=80=99s ego that motivates all = those programmers to show off all that great coding ability in places = like GitHub. Think of the man years of proven, tested, free code = that=E2=80=99s just sitting there, free for the taking.




On Oct 1, 2019, at 12:43 AM, = Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> = wrote:

I = know none of you care what I have to say and some of my ideas are off = the wall... but this might help someone with slow Apache or slow = internet connections.

My newer (2009) more powerful Mac Pro 12 core 3.46/ 128GM = ram/ 4 1TB SSD's in RAID seemed to have fast speedtest but Apache still = took about 30 seconds to deliver my web pages
 and my older (2008) Mac with about 1/4 the horsepower = was always very quick (instantly)in delivering my web pages until = suddenly it's connection 400/20 will only max out at about 175/20 and = took about 30 seconds or more to deliver web pages. I tried every config = on my router and network settings and even tried 2 ethernet connections = (different ip's) and still slow page loads. And just now I = accidentally had my two ethernet connections at the same DHCP = 192.168.0.2 and it cut the page loads into less than half... Not sure if = it matters but the remote DNS are reversed on the 2 connections... = images attached.

It also might create a very little Redundancy if one ethernet port = should fail... attached images. 

Note: Deleted my Digital Ocean account = as page loads the few times my sites were working there are about the = same as my home connection now and building site via FTP is a pain and = slow...

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:51 PM Stuart = Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
Hi Patrick

Unfortunately you = can=E2=80=99t rely on the WebDNA url(s) being current.

We have found recently = that there is an Apache config that needs to be put into an override = file, none of this is included in the WebDNA Server edition = installers.

If = you want to make this happen I would concentrate on the fcgi version as = this is designed to be relevant to the domain root rather than servicing = the entire machine, so in keeping with the cPanel concept. A user would = install WebDNA or PHP (not both), that is where WebDNA needs to go to = widen the use of the language. Getting in peoples faces is the way to = go, curious users would then at least look into the language and = hopefully give it a go.

I can=E2=80=99t see why it could not be achieved, but then I = have never done anything more than use cPanel as a user.

I would really like to = see this happen.

Patrick it may be more appropriate to change this subject to = cPanel & WebDNA

Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane Software
AUSTRALIA







On 1 Oct 2019, at 10:33, Patrick McCormick <duganmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, Stuart,
Not only do I have access to the full = machine, I have a 24/7 staff that is willing to help with anything I ask = them for.  They have been outstanding.  It might work out = great.

I know = I would probably have to make some sort of configuration utility for = cPanel & make a pretty icon, but cPanle is very well documented and = I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s much more than linking a cPanel icon = to the WebDNA config URL(s), once the software is properly installed in = whatever version of unix.



On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:41 PM, = Stuart Tremain <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> = wrote:

Hi = Patrick

The addition = of WebDNA into the app library of cPanel would be a great boost for = WebDNA..

Many = years ago I shopped around different hosting companies for them to make = WebDNA available on their cPanel configs - none were willing.

If you have total access = to your machine and are familiar with the OS on the machine and the = workings of cPanel then it would be a worthwhile exercise to get it = going. Your best bet on getting help to achieve this would be a cPanel = support group as I am pretty sure that there is no-one using WebDNA on = cPanel.

Long = term it would be beneficial to everyone and the WebDNA language to have = WebDNA installed via cPanel.

I for one would be very interested in = what you can achieve.


Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane Software
AUSTRALIA







On 1 Oct 2019, at 05:06, Patrick McCormick <duganmccormick@gmail.com> wrote:

I recently upgraded a server = at the hosting company I=E2=80=99ve been using:  futurehosting.com

I have a dedicated machine, second from the max size.  = In addition to cPanel, that level of contract includes WHM, which is an = administration level that allows me to resell cPanel accounts. I would = like to try to get a working cPanel installation of WebDNA onto this = machine to be used by anyone on this list to install WebDNA into any = cPanel hosting environment.  

If I can get WebDNA functioning on this = server, I will provide hosting for redistribution for the fresh = installation of cPanel & WebDNA for anyone needing it for a cPanel = hosting company.




On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:56 PM, Donovan Brooke <dbrooke@euca.us> wrote:

Hey Brian... I think the gist = is, it is great that you are using WebDNA. The list is here to try and = help. Unfortunately, the users here don=E2=80=99t always have the the = time / resources to help. Don=E2=80=99t hold that against them. Stuart = is a one of a very few champions of WebDNA. He deserves the respect that = goes with that. 

In short... us long-time members will always try to help if = we can. Just don=E2=80=99t F with us. We have been through a lot = ;-)

Cheers.
Donovan 

D. Brooke = Mobile

On Sep 29, 2019, = at 4:09 PM, Brian Harrington <autoglasswny@gmail.com> wrote:

FYI I NEVER MENTIONED = YOUR NAME OR U WERE THE ONE HELPING ME! THEY ALL ASSUMED THAT I'M SURE = CUZ U ALL SO CLOSE... AND BTW YES I WAS PLANNING ON DOING SOMETHING TO = REPAY YOU FOR "HELPING" ME! AND I'M SURE IF YOU REVIEW ALL YOUR NOTES I = SAID THANK YOU MANY TIMES! AND I HOPE WHAT I DID TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER = ON THE FILE PATH ISSUE HELPS OTHERS!!!

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:58 PM Stuart Tremain = <webdna@plsoftware.com.au> wrote:
I have really leaned = another one of this life's lessons today.

As any member of this list will may or = may not know I have been an active member of this list for 20+ = years.

During = this time I have learned so much about the use of WebDNA from people = such as Ken Grome, Donovan Brooke, and others that have since moved = on.

I have = always tried hard to return the favour and as such at times have gone = far and beyond the task of offering help. I have enjoyed giving back to = the community from which my skills have grown. This I believe is the = reason why I have been contracted by WebDNA users from around the = world.

I have = seen many users over the years with configuration problems, in = particular the last few weeks with Ubuntu 18.04, hence the reason why I = wrote the instructions a week or so ago on how to set up WebDNA on a = fresh installation of Ubuntu 18.04 - I even went as far as to provide an = image of the same available to anyone that would like it, all in the = hope that WebDNA would become a quick easy solution for members of this = list to implement.

I had a number of people request a copy of this image, none = of whom have taken up the offer. One user requested that I build an = image that anyone could use on any platform. However this is not = possible for cloud servers as each cloud provider has their own flavour = of Ubuntu tuned to their hosting configuration. The instructions that I = publish will work if you follow the steps on any host and/or new Ubuntu = 18.0 installation.

And then along came Brian Harrington. 

I must preface this with = the fact that everything that i have done for Brian was at no charge, = purely a gesture of good will that I extend to all members of this = list.

Brian = was unable to log into the Ubuntu 18.04 Droplet that he created. I = offered to meet him on Skype to help him get past his hurdle - less than = a minute later I had connected to the Droplet (a virtual server) using = ssh, Brian had some confusion as to how that was achieved, and had not = received the image that I had shared with him from DigitalOcean. So to = make things easier and so that he didn=E2=80=99t have to go backwards I = simply completed the installation from the instructions that I had = published.

Less = than 20 minutes later Brian was the owner of a shiny new Ubuntu 18.04 = server complete with a working installation of WebDNA server that was = only requiring a license number.

As you will know, if you have read the = published instructions, Webmin is also installed on the = Droplet.

What = happened next is purely comical, if I published the emails that I = received and you read the warnings that I provided, plus the repeated = advice that I gave,  you would see exactly where Brian=E2=80=99s = problems are.

=46rom here all Brian needed to do was upload his websites to = /var/www/html and set up his Virtual hosts - at this stage WebDNA was = 100% functional with all the standard file extensions that are installed = with the WebDNA installer.

As an additional task I set up two Virtual Hosts, one on 80 = the other on 443 with the ssl certificate that he supplied so that he = could have a working reference.

However Brian had other plans, he = wanted to create a new directory /Library/Websites to be the root = directory of his webserver, remember this is the same person that has = had no experience with a Linux server, he has had experience with a Mac = server so I believed that he had a good sense of being able to manage a = Linux Server. Brian didn=E2=80=99t want to use the installed Webmin, he = wanted to do all Apache configuration by uploading files with FTP = however he didn=E2=80=99t have a FTP client.

Brian, you may remember the Skype = message that I sent you expressing my concern that if you work outside = the standard installation you would break it.

For the rest of the week I continued to = help him, answer his questions, provide advice. All the time doing my = own work that Brian=E2=80=99s emails were interrupting. As I live in = Sydney there were times that I was not able to answer him immediately = due to the 10 hour time difference.

Then on Friday afternoon (Sydney time) = I received yet another email from Brian - he had locked himself out of = his server, yes, I fixed this for him too, repaired his non-root user = with sudo privileges and advised him that in 19 minutes time I would be = leaving for the weekend.

So it is now Sunday morning in Sydney, I have turned on my = computer this morning after have a =E2=80=98family=E2=80=99 day = yesterday to see the usually quiet WebDNA list dominated by Brian = continuing to have issues with his installation.

What does surprise me, and leads me to = writing this email are comments pointed to myself by Brian such = as:
"TalkList = members say they will help... then they are GONE and suddenly don't has = access to email or skype???!!! Nothing worse than someone setting you up = to fail...!!!=E2=80=9D

Brian had a very large VHost file that he = moved from his Mac server to the Linux environment without any = alterations. He believes that it was easier to change the configuration = of the Linux/Apache server than to use search and replace on his VHost = file. Brian=E2=80=99s problems relate directly to Permissions and the = relocation of his server root. I note that Brian has = said: 
" I have no idea why Stuart thinks = /Library/Webserver files are gonna be an issue when apache2.conf list = share folder and everything else.=E2=80=9D, I guess to Brian taking = advice from someone that has 23 operational Ubuntu 18.04 servers = really doesn=E2=80=99t make much sense.

So= Brian, if you had followed my advice, you would have been 100% = operational as soon as all your files had been uploaded to the = /var/www/html directory and had their ownership and preferences = checked, and had simply changed the root locations in = your vhost configuration file simply with a search and replace with = your text editor. If you listened to the FREE advice that you were given = or you could have even asked me to do it you would have had a fully = functional server many days ago.

Now I would like = to see a retraction of the ill placed comments that you have made about = me.
 
Kind regards

Stuart Tremain
Pharoah Lane = Software
AUSTRALIA
webdna@plsoftware.com.au







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--
Brian Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. = Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029
www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com
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--
Brian Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. = Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) 861-2029
www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com
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--
Brian = Harrington
Auto Glass Xpress
2655 Millersport Hwy. Suite 1063
Getzville, NY 14068
(716) = 861-2029
www.Auto-Glass-Xpress.com
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= --------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list talk@webdna.us To unsubscribe, E-mail to: talk-leave@webdna.us archives: http://www.webdna.us/page.dna?numero=3D55 Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us --Apple-Mail=_C22CE9D5-562B-44A9-BA22-6DDF21698D0E-- . Patrick McCormick

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