Re: [WebDNA] WebDNA 7
This WebDNA talk-list message is from 2011
It keeps the original formatting.
numero = 107565
interpreted = N
texte = Cheetara !! lolOn Wed, 26 Oct 2011 15:45:34 -0400, Adam OConnor
= =20wrote:> My vote is for Liger. ;-)>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger>>>> On 10/26/11 3:34 PM, Kenneth Grome wrote:>> So here's the bottom line:>>>> For those of you who need a globals folder, and for others>> such as those who have built eCommerce systems on top of v6>> and earlier, there is no reason to switch to v7.>>>> None whatsoever.>>>> So just continue using v6 successfully like you've done for>> how many years (?) and give WSC a chance to do what they>> intend to do with v7 -- without pressuring them to change it>> just because you want a feature it does not offer.>>>> By the way, in my opinion v7 should have been given a brand>> new name and a new 1.0 version number to go along with it.>> Then you all might not consider it to be an "upgrade" ...>> since it is really not an upgrade at all.>>>> So who's with me in having a contest to give v7 a brand new>> name? I hereby cast my vote for "Wombat"!>>>> :)>>>> Sincerely,>> Kenneth Grome>>>>>>>>> Brian,>>>>>> I've been following this thread intently over the past>>> few days and have been pleased to see the interaction>>> and feedback. I feel compelled to say a few things at>>> this point:>>>>>> Ken largely has it right; if we thought that the "ISP">>> customer base was large enough and would spend enough>>> money to support the forward momentum of WSC we would>>> certainly focus our efforts on giving that base what>>> they want. In your case, you say, essentially, that you>>> would like to continue to use WebDNA on your sites and>>> due to years of existing code it would burdensome for>>> you to switch to WebDNA 7, thus it is not a viable>>> option for you. I am like you in that respect, though I>>> presume that you manage far more sites than I do since I>>> have largely gotten out of the "build/host websites for>>> other people" business. I own an unlimited commerce>>> edition of WebDNA 6.2 for linux installed on a VPS that>>> I control where I have a handful of sites, mostly my>>> own. I don't use sandboxes since I'm the only one who>>> gets under the hood of the server and I use globals>>> quite a bit -- in my case it's more as a security>>> measure than a code-centralization one.>>>>>> Fact is, I won't be "upgrading" to WebDNA 7. I have no>>> need for it at this time. That is not to say that I>>> won't have a need in the future or that it's not useful;>>> I probably will and it is. The kicker here of course is>>> that I'm the "marketing guy" for WSC so I'm supposedly>>> obligated to drink the kool-aid and set an example, but>>> the fact of the matter is, I'm not our target market>>> anymore, and that was a major eye-opener late last year>>> and early this year when Chris and I were discussing the>>> future of WebDNA and how to market it.>>>>>> So my point on this is that perhaps you don't need WebDNA>>> 7 right now, and that's okay. I'm still using Adobe CS4>>> and as much as Adobe wants me to upgrade, I just don't>>> need it right now. Don't feel compelled to "upgrade", I>>> won't be. I keep putting the word "upgrade" in quotes>>> because this new version of WebDNA, while it does fix>>> some bugs from previous versions, it is more of a>>> stripping-down and a simplifying of the product, as>>> Chris has pointed out. It is for all intents and>>> purposes a new direction, and one that is based on the>>> future of WebDNA and the survival of WSC. It is our hope>>> that this simplification allows WebDNA to reach a>>> desperately-needed wider audience. That is not to say>>> that we are leaving our current customer-base behind; we>>> are not. We still stand by and support all versions of>>> WebDNA.>>>>>> If WebDNA 7 proves to be successful and the resources are>>> there then who's to say that WebDNA 8 won't include>>> globals or whatever feature requests are demanded. So>>> hang tight. Stick with your current version of WebDNA. I>>> am. Wait and see what happens, that's what I'm going to>>> do.>>>>>> Someone pointed out that there were maybe 20 people still>>> using WebDNA, and I can confidently say that that is not>>> the case, but the point is well-taken, and that is that>>> WebDNA is not very popular these days. Agreed. It is our>>> intention to change that buy simplifying the product>>> into what is now WebDNA 7.0. But let's go ahead and use>>> those "20" people as an example to help illustrate the>>> reality at hand. Let's say, hypothetically that there>>> are really only 20 people still using WebDNA. Let's>>> reasonably assume then, that they are "ISP" customers,>>> and that they by and large need WebDNA to stay the same>>> in order for it to remain a viable "upgrade" for them,>>> even if that "upgrade" is simply better support and/or>>> documentation among other things. Okay, then I ask all>>> 20 of them to each send WSC, say, $5,000 and we'll make>>> it happen. "What?!" "Why would I do that?" "What's in it>>> for me?" Exactly. Who in their right mind would do that?>>> Nobody, that's who. Now let's say that instead of 20>>> customers, there were 200 or 2000 or 200000. Then the>>> amount "needed" would of course be $500, $50 or $5,>>> respectively. Bottom line, we need more customers, and>>> that is where WebDNA 7. comes in.>>>>>> Lastly, I'd like to acknowledge a few things in an>>> official capacity: I know that I have been pretty quiet>>> for a "marketing guy", but that doesn't mean that I'm>>> not still around and acting on behalf of WSC. Fact is, I>>> submitted a marketing plan and budget to Chris at the>>> beginning of this year and he submitted it to the WSC>>> shareholders in April. All that is missing is funding.>>> No funding, no marketing, unfortunately. There is no way>>> around it. Even if I had the time or inclination to>>> essentially donate my time to doing all of the various>>> tasks that need to be done (hint: I don't) to bring>>> WebDNA 7 to market, there are still the hard costs of>>> advertising. Chris has been feverishly working to raise>>> that capital all year and I am confident that he will>>> come through, and in the meantime his efforts have been>>> directed at tightening up the screws on the new product>>> and testing testing testing.>>>>>> I apologize for the lengthy response, and Brian, this was>>> not directed at you, per se, but your opinions echo much>>> of what the important issues are for WSC at this time,>>> so I used a response to you as an opportunity to address>>> the group. I realize many of you will have questions as>>> a result of this email and I'll do my best to respond to>>> each of them -- briefly of course :)>>>>>> As always, long live WebDNA.>>>>>> -- -Dan Strong>>> Chief Marketing Officer>>> WebDNA Software Corporation>>> http://www.webdna.us>>>>>> On 10/26/2011 11:02 AM, Brian Fries wrote:>>>> Chris, I understand and agree with your direction with>>>> WebDNA to make it more palatable to ISPs. However, I>>>> cannot move to WebDNA 7 for my main web servers>>>> without many hours of work and testing. Your statement>>>> "i really do not understand the fellows here who feel>>>> that the world would stop without /global" is rather>>>> dismissive to those of us who have been using the>>>> product for years and have developed a system that>>>> (for good reasons) relies on globals. In my case, I>>>> have two different physical web servers which host 20+>>>> domains between them. In both cases, most of the>>>> domains are virtual clones of the same site with both>>>> shared code and shared databases. Maintaining 20>>>> copies of the code and separating the databases into>>>> 20 domain-specific sets would be a lot of work and>>>> would lose functionality such as single sign-on for>>>> multiple domains without additional effort. So, if I>>>> build new systems under WebDNA, I will keep the>>>> limitations of version 7 in mind, but I cannot afford>>>> the effort of changing systems that have been in place>>>> for 10 or more years. As such, those sites will not be>>>> receiving any of the benefits of future WebDNA>>>> enhancements. Brian Fries BrainScan Software On Oct>>>>>>>> 26, 2011, at 8:04 AM, Donovan Brooke wrote:>>>>> christophe.billiottet@webdna.us wrote: [snip]>>>>>>>>>>> In conclusion, i do not think the 6.x /global>>>>>> directory can save programming time (by building a>>>>>> standard and local /global), is not really saving>>>>>> space neither (few hundred kB?), implies major>>>>>> complexity for WebDNA and restrict customer's>>>>>> freedom. Since it is very easy to move locally the>>>>>> /global directory and fix the references to it with>>>>>> a single "search and replace" in few minutes only, i>>>>>> really do not understand the fellows here who feel>>>>>> that the world would stop without /global. - chris>>>>> What we've got here is (a) failure to communicate. ;-)>>>>> Donovan -- Donovan Brooke Euca Design Center>>>>> www.euca.us>>>> ------------------------------------------------------->>>> -- This message is sent to you because you are>>>> subscribed to the mailing list. To>>>> unsubscribe, E-mail to:>>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>>> --------------------------------------------------------->>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>>> the mailing list.>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to:>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>> --------------------------------------------------------->> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>> the mailing list.>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to:>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to> the mailing list .> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us--=20Vijay-Kumar SolankiAdobe Certified Instructor/Developer, Consultantd'Vinci InteractiveVijay@dvinci.com301.797.2386
Associated Messages, from the most recent to the oldest:
Cheetara !! lolOn Wed, 26 Oct 2011 15:45:34 -0400, Adam OConnor = =20wrote:> My vote is for Liger. ;-)>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger>>>> On 10/26/11 3:34 PM, Kenneth Grome wrote:>> So here's the bottom line:>>>> For those of you who need a globals folder, and for others>> such as those who have built eCommerce systems on top of v6>> and earlier, there is no reason to switch to v7.>>>> None whatsoever.>>>> So just continue using v6 successfully like you've done for>> how many years (?) and give WSC a chance to do what they>> intend to do with v7 -- without pressuring them to change it>> just because you want a feature it does not offer.>>>> By the way, in my opinion v7 should have been given a brand>> new name and a new 1.0 version number to go along with it.>> Then you all might not consider it to be an "upgrade" ...>> since it is really not an upgrade at all.>>>> So who's with me in having a contest to give v7 a brand new>> name? I hereby cast my vote for "Wombat"!>>>> :)>>>> Sincerely,>> Kenneth Grome>>>>>>>>> Brian,>>>>>> I've been following this thread intently over the past>>> few days and have been pleased to see the interaction>>> and feedback. I feel compelled to say a few things at>>> this point:>>>>>> Ken largely has it right; if we thought that the "ISP">>> customer base was large enough and would spend enough>>> money to support the forward momentum of WSC we would>>> certainly focus our efforts on giving that base what>>> they want. In your case, you say, essentially, that you>>> would like to continue to use WebDNA on your sites and>>> due to years of existing code it would burdensome for>>> you to switch to WebDNA 7, thus it is not a viable>>> option for you. I am like you in that respect, though I>>> presume that you manage far more sites than I do since I>>> have largely gotten out of the "build/host websites for>>> other people" business. I own an unlimited commerce>>> edition of WebDNA 6.2 for linux installed on a VPS that>>> I control where I have a handful of sites, mostly my>>> own. I don't use sandboxes since I'm the only one who>>> gets under the hood of the server and I use globals>>> quite a bit -- in my case it's more as a security>>> measure than a code-centralization one.>>>>>> Fact is, I won't be "upgrading" to WebDNA 7. I have no>>> need for it at this time. That is not to say that I>>> won't have a need in the future or that it's not useful;>>> I probably will and it is. The kicker here of course is>>> that I'm the "marketing guy" for WSC so I'm supposedly>>> obligated to drink the kool-aid and set an example, but>>> the fact of the matter is, I'm not our target market>>> anymore, and that was a major eye-opener late last year>>> and early this year when Chris and I were discussing the>>> future of WebDNA and how to market it.>>>>>> So my point on this is that perhaps you don't need WebDNA>>> 7 right now, and that's okay. I'm still using Adobe CS4>>> and as much as Adobe wants me to upgrade, I just don't>>> need it right now. Don't feel compelled to "upgrade", I>>> won't be. I keep putting the word "upgrade" in quotes>>> because this new version of WebDNA, while it does fix>>> some bugs from previous versions, it is more of a>>> stripping-down and a simplifying of the product, as>>> Chris has pointed out. It is for all intents and>>> purposes a new direction, and one that is based on the>>> future of WebDNA and the survival of WSC. It is our hope>>> that this simplification allows WebDNA to reach a>>> desperately-needed wider audience. That is not to say>>> that we are leaving our current customer-base behind; we>>> are not. We still stand by and support all versions of>>> WebDNA.>>>>>> If WebDNA 7 proves to be successful and the resources are>>> there then who's to say that WebDNA 8 won't include>>> globals or whatever feature requests are demanded. So>>> hang tight. Stick with your current version of WebDNA. I>>> am. Wait and see what happens, that's what I'm going to>>> do.>>>>>> Someone pointed out that there were maybe 20 people still>>> using WebDNA, and I can confidently say that that is not>>> the case, but the point is well-taken, and that is that>>> WebDNA is not very popular these days. Agreed. It is our>>> intention to change that buy simplifying the product>>> into what is now WebDNA 7.0. But let's go ahead and use>>> those "20" people as an example to help illustrate the>>> reality at hand. Let's say, hypothetically that there>>> are really only 20 people still using WebDNA. Let's>>> reasonably assume then, that they are "ISP" customers,>>> and that they by and large need WebDNA to stay the same>>> in order for it to remain a viable "upgrade" for them,>>> even if that "upgrade" is simply better support and/or>>> documentation among other things. Okay, then I ask all>>> 20 of them to each send WSC, say, $5,000 and we'll make>>> it happen. "What?!" "Why would I do that?" "What's in it>>> for me?" Exactly. Who in their right mind would do that?>>> Nobody, that's who. Now let's say that instead of 20>>> customers, there were 200 or 2000 or 200000. Then the>>> amount "needed" would of course be $500, $50 or $5,>>> respectively. Bottom line, we need more customers, and>>> that is where WebDNA 7. comes in.>>>>>> Lastly, I'd like to acknowledge a few things in an>>> official capacity: I know that I have been pretty quiet>>> for a "marketing guy", but that doesn't mean that I'm>>> not still around and acting on behalf of WSC. Fact is, I>>> submitted a marketing plan and budget to Chris at the>>> beginning of this year and he submitted it to the WSC>>> shareholders in April. All that is missing is funding.>>> No funding, no marketing, unfortunately. There is no way>>> around it. Even if I had the time or inclination to>>> essentially donate my time to doing all of the various>>> tasks that need to be done (hint: I don't) to bring>>> WebDNA 7 to market, there are still the hard costs of>>> advertising. Chris has been feverishly working to raise>>> that capital all year and I am confident that he will>>> come through, and in the meantime his efforts have been>>> directed at tightening up the screws on the new product>>> and testing testing testing.>>>>>> I apologize for the lengthy response, and Brian, this was>>> not directed at you, per se, but your opinions echo much>>> of what the important issues are for WSC at this time,>>> so I used a response to you as an opportunity to address>>> the group. I realize many of you will have questions as>>> a result of this email and I'll do my best to respond to>>> each of them -- briefly of course :)>>>>>> As always, long live WebDNA.>>>>>> -- -Dan Strong>>> Chief Marketing Officer>>> WebDNA Software Corporation>>> http://www.webdna.us>>>>>> On 10/26/2011 11:02 AM, Brian Fries wrote:>>>> Chris, I understand and agree with your direction with>>>> WebDNA to make it more palatable to ISPs. However, I>>>> cannot move to WebDNA 7 for my main web servers>>>> without many hours of work and testing. Your statement>>>> "i really do not understand the fellows here who feel>>>> that the world would stop without /global" is rather>>>> dismissive to those of us who have been using the>>>> product for years and have developed a system that>>>> (for good reasons) relies on globals. In my case, I>>>> have two different physical web servers which host 20+>>>> domains between them. In both cases, most of the>>>> domains are virtual clones of the same site with both>>>> shared code and shared databases. Maintaining 20>>>> copies of the code and separating the databases into>>>> 20 domain-specific sets would be a lot of work and>>>> would lose functionality such as single sign-on for>>>> multiple domains without additional effort. So, if I>>>> build new systems under WebDNA, I will keep the>>>> limitations of version 7 in mind, but I cannot afford>>>> the effort of changing systems that have been in place>>>> for 10 or more years. As such, those sites will not be>>>> receiving any of the benefits of future WebDNA>>>> enhancements. Brian Fries BrainScan Software On Oct>>>>>>>> 26, 2011, at 8:04 AM, Donovan Brooke wrote:>>>>> christophe.billiottet@webdna.us wrote: [snip]>>>>>>>>>>> In conclusion, i do not think the 6.x /global>>>>>> directory can save programming time (by building a>>>>>> standard and local /global), is not really saving>>>>>> space neither (few hundred kB?), implies major>>>>>> complexity for WebDNA and restrict customer's>>>>>> freedom. Since it is very easy to move locally the>>>>>> /global directory and fix the references to it with>>>>>> a single "search and replace" in few minutes only, i>>>>>> really do not understand the fellows here who feel>>>>>> that the world would stop without /global. - chris>>>>> What we've got here is (a) failure to communicate. ;-)>>>>> Donovan -- Donovan Brooke Euca Design Center>>>>> www.euca.us>>>> ------------------------------------------------------->>>> -- This message is sent to you because you are>>>> subscribed to the mailing list. To>>>> unsubscribe, E-mail to:>>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>>> --------------------------------------------------------->>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>>> the mailing list.>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to:>>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>> --------------------------------------------------------->> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to>> the mailing list.>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to:>> archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us>> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to> the mailing list .> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > archives: http://mail.webdna.us/list/talk@webdna.us> Bug Reporting: support@webdna.us--=20Vijay-Kumar SolankiAdobe Certified Instructor/Developer, Consultantd'Vinci InteractiveVijay@dvinci.com301.797.2386
"Vijay-Kumar Solanki"
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